Kurdish group takes credit for Istanbul cafe blast

[zurderer]

Kurdish colony? what did turkey gain from that land, except blood.

By the way, all kurds should go. I dont want anyone who live in Turkish lands, and cheer for PKK.

It is complately fair, get your land, give our land.

Indeed... But I want you to know that not all Kurds support the PKK... I do not cheer on PKK - but when they fight legitimatly in North Kurdistan - against Jandarma and other military and police - I support them... Because they are only doing what is natural...

If a stranger came into your house and wanted to throw you out - would you give it up without a fight?

I support democracy... I support the motion that people should decide what their future should hold...

Meaning - Kurds in North Kurdistan should be given the choice of a referendum - so they can vote to be either part of Turkey or part of Kurdistan...

Complately nonsense, when did pkk fight legitimatly?

You mean killing turkish teachers legitimate?(First thing they did)

Now east is poor, neither teachers nor doctors want to go there, ah but it is still turkish guilt?

By the way, I am agree not all kurds support PKK, but lets accept majority of them support.

HADEP gets most of its words, kurds who live in turkish land, isnt this weird? It only shows, we need a clean and bloodless divorce.

[zurderer]

well, kurdistan for kurds, It is not your job to decide about turkey.

why dont you just try to persuade your family to leave ankara?

As SOON as you persuade Ankara to get out of my Kurdistan...

err, dont you think, your family infact helping ankara, instead of kurdistan?

you are boosting our economy. Help your mother land.

Hey... If they are so nice to have around - then why do you want to persuade them to leave?

Well, Infact I dont want a civil war inside of our cities.

what do you think will happen, If this bomb things continue?

[Diri]

Kurdish colony? what did turkey gain from that land, except blood.

By the way, all kurds should go. I dont want anyone who live in Turkish lands, and cheer for PKK.

It is complately fair, get your land, give our land.

Indeed... But I want you to know that not all Kurds support the PKK... I do not cheer on PKK - but when they fight legitimatly in North Kurdistan - against Jandarma and other military and police - I support them... Because they are only doing what is natural...

If a stranger came into your house and wanted to throw you out - would you give it up without a fight?

I support democracy... I support the motion that people should decide what their future should hold...

Meaning - Kurds in North Kurdistan should be given the choice of a referendum - so they can vote to be either part of Turkey or part of Kurdistan...

Complately nonsense, when did pkk fight legitimatly?


HADEP gets most of its words, kurds who live in turkish land, isnt this weird? It only shows, we need a clean and bloodless divorce.

You need to understand that you aren't the only one here with a definition of "legitimate"... I have my own - and that was what I described. When they fight against the military, jandarma or Turkish police - it is in my oppinion; legitimate...

Killing teachers is not legitimate unless the teacher shoots at them or tries to kill them in another way...

Did I make myself clear? I only see DEFENCE as legitimate and rightful violence... When somebody attacks you - you have the right to protect yourself, I do not support the killing of innocent civilians... Like teachers etc.

You and I agree - it's just that you are too touchy on the topic... Try seeing it from where I stand...

You are right - we should have a divorce... And I wouldn't care if Turkey re-built what it has destroyed or not - I would be happy and content as long as Turkey acknowledges our right to a nation state...

And I think you are one of the Turks, who has accepted this - Kurds in Turkey only mean destruction for Turks... Not for Kurds...

Turkish society has different values... Kurdish society has different values...

Be they good or bad - they are still different... And you wouldn't need to read about the PKK killing this and that many people - or more Mehmetcik's being slain or more bloodshed... It would be fantastic - but like most fantastic things - it takes time to happen...

[zurderer]

Killing teachers is not legitimate unless the teacher shoots at them or tries to kill them in another way...

do you know any teacher which attacked kurds?

[Diri]

well, kurdistan for kurds, It is not your job to decide about turkey.

why dont you just try to persuade your family to leave ankara?

As SOON as you persuade Ankara to get out of my Kurdistan...

err, dont you think, your family infact helping ankara, instead of kurdistan?

you are boosting our economy. Help your mother land.

Hey... If they are so nice to have around - then why do you want to persuade them to leave?

Well, Infact I dont want a civil war inside of our cities.

what do you think will happen, If this bomb things continue?

Well - my family is not part of the people bombing civilians... And my family does not support the PKK as a party... Radical socialism/communism which the PKK stands for is not compatible with Kurdish culture...

I hope people come to their senses... Kurds in Turkey don't care about the Turkish state or the Turkish nation... They care about surviving - and if surviving means stealing, selling their souls or anything else... It is just how it is forced to be...

Believe me - if Kurdistan was given self-determination tomorrow - I would be the first to go back and build it... And when people like myself start building it - there will be work-places - and Kurds in Turkey will be attracted by the love for homeland and the job uppertunities...

There are between 500.000 and 1 million Kurds from North Kurdistan in diaspora - all over the world - these will return to re-build Kurdistan - and that will create jobs and thanks to our experience with democracy in the West - we will definetly bring with us democratic values and mind-set to Kurdistan...

All very positive things...

And good for the Turkish state in the West...

[Diri]

Killing teachers is not legitimate unless the teacher shoots at them or tries to kill them in another way...

do you know any teacher which attacked kurds?

Mr. why are you stuck on that matter? Did I say there were any such teachers? No... I simply made the point: IF the teacher tries to kill them - then it is legitimate to resist...

But I have not heard of that yet...

[zurderer]

Believe me - if Kurdistan was given self-determination tomorrow - I would be the first to go back and build it... And when people like myself start building it - there will be work-places - and Kurds in Turkey will be attracted by the love for homeland and the job uppertunities...


You are dreaming, I dont know If you return or not, but most of them not.

can you tell me why kurdish doctors dont return kurdistan?

They have no fear to be killed, or treated bad. turkey give realy much much money for them, why dont they?

Goverment trying to sent doctors forcefully east. dont kurds have any doctors?


Anyway, as I said, I think turkey should let kurdistan independence.

I dont care much, what will happen at kurdistan after independence, that is what you should think. but kurds should go too, no need to bloody civil war, speacialy not after independence of kurdish land.(By the way, I hope you dont want cities like erzurum)

Well - my family is not part of the people bombing civilians... And my family does not support the PKK as a party... Radical socialism/communism which the PKK stands for is not compatible with Kurdish culture...

Yeah I know this, but I cannot know who is supporting pkk or not, this is problem. So Every kurds will fall under suspect, speacialy after this bombs.

I hope people come to their senses... Kurds in Turkey don't care about the Turkish state or the Turkish nation... They care about surviving - and if surviving means stealing, selling their souls or anything else... It is just how it is forced to be...

I am not talking about standart crimes like stealing. poor people do it. I am talking about 1 million voter of Hadep at turkish lands.

[Diri]

Fair enough...

You and I won't agree on details...

We do however agree that Kurdistan should be independent - because that would solve the problem we have - where people are bombed to death...

Sadly!


A Turkey without North Kurdistan is a SAFE Turkey... It is a Turkey with MONEY... It will save SO much money on giving up Kurdistan! There are 200 000 Turkish soldiers stationed in North Kurdistan - think about how much money they would save by taking those 200 000 Turkish soldiers to Turkish areas - where expenditure is at a minimum...

No... We don't want Erzerum... That is not Kurdistan... Kurdistan is more like this:



Erzerum is further North...

[zurderer]

that place near to ankara?

I agree, turkey will save much money, we can use it for our people, instead of a nonsense war.

[Diri]

that place near to ankara?

I agree, turkey will save much money, we can use it for our people, instead of a nonsense war.

LOL - as you noticed, that map is not a proposal for political borders... It just shows where Kurds make a majority...

The Haymana and Konya Kurds were deported to these areas by successive Turkish governments - they tried to pacify them - it didn't work... Kurds in Ankara/Haymana/Konya are still "too much" Kurdish...

But here is a proposal for political borders:

[zurderer]

that place near to ankara?

I agree, turkey will save much money, we can use it for our people, instead of a nonsense war.

LOL - as you noticed, that map is not a proposal for political borders... It just shows where Kurds make a majority...

The Haymana and Konya Kurds were deported to these areas by successive Turkish governments - they tried to pacify them - it didn't work... Kurds in Ankara/Haymana/Konya are still "too much" Kurdish...

But here is a proposal for political borders:

I dont know If you are aware or not, but that proposal consist some lands from armenia.


I think every city can choose his way and this is only a dream.

[Diri]

Well... I it isn't a political map either... It's ethnic - again...

But you got the point? Kurdistan would be something like that... South Kurdistan (Iraqi Kurdistan) is liberated - now three remain... Instead of investing in keeping controll of North Kurdistan - Turkey should develope the Turkish lands, the tourist industry, agriculture and historic-cultural sites...

"Build Turkey - don't destroy Kurdistan..." Is a beautiful slogan!

I don't want any land from Armenia, by the way... The Kurds living their are immigrants - just like the Kurds in Ankara/Haymana/Konya - but they have lived there for at two generations...

They still remain resolutly Kurdish...

[tomjez]

Reading a discussion between a non-pkk kurd and a non-mhp turk on this forum, I'm about to cry

Seriously, I agree with both of you, but I think an independant kurdistan and a "dekurdified" turkey should be very close and brother nations, that would be awesome. Turkey would not lose anything but troubles, and could start investing in Kurdistan, where workers would be cheaper
Anyway it's really good to see open minded people discuting here, as a complete outsider it is sometimes tiring to see only braiwashed pkk and ülkücü turks fighting...

iyi geceler, sev bas, bonne nuit!

[Piling]

What makes me believe that soon or late, Northern Kurds will enjoy a kind of authonomy/federation/independance, whatever, it 's because it's in the mood of our era. All empires or multinational states, SSSR, Yugoslavia, Chekoslovakia (don't know how you say in english) and even Iraq, and so on are disintegrated by a bunch of nationalisms. Good or bad, it depends on country : peaceful divorce between Slovakia and Chekia, tragedy between Russia and Chechenya... But the air of the time is not "unionist", that is a fact.

[zurderer]

Reading a discussion between a non-pkk kurd and a non-mhp turk on this forum, I'm about to cry

Seriously, I agree with both of you, but I think an independant kurdistan and a "dekurdified" turkey should be very close and brother nations, that would be awesome. Turkey would not lose anything but troubles, and could start investing in Kurdistan, where workers would be cheaper
Anyway it's really good to see open minded people discuting here, as a complete outsider it is sometimes tiring to see only braiwashed pkk and ülkücü turks fighting...

iyi geceler, sev bas, bonne nuit!

Infact, what I want is only dream, first turkey will not left kurdistan peacifuly, not because they are nationalist or ulkucu. If everything reversed kurds also wont leave turkish lands. this is only way world goes.

Secondly kurds will not left turkish lands, neither tom nor diri will leave from ankara or istanbul. Also diaspora kurds will not return kurdistan.(why dont you ask your family, If they would return kurdistan or not)

Look to roa, after that much years and wars, they gained their country, but 1/3 population of ROA left this country, no diaspora returned.

kurdistan also wont be a democratic country, most probably pkk will come down from mountains, both kurdish parties at ıraq try to interfere kurdistan. And I am not sure zazas will accept kurdish rule.
I know you call them as kurd, but not all of them call themself as kurd but zaza.

Because of this interconflict, a lot people try to get out of kurdistian(like roa),maybe even a civil war would happen.

just guess where will they come No not armenia, nor Iraq or syria. It would be turkey, instead of having less kurd, we would just have more and more kurd.

by the way, tomjez no turkey wont invest kurdistan. Infact even now, with a lot encouragement from goverment, turkish people dont invest kurdistan much. why do you think it will be different?

most probably that people who want independence will began to storm turkey border.

so there wont be a dekurdified turkey, without a mass exile.