Roj Bash Kurdistan

Still waiting for people to list the benefits of the Peace Plan

NOT exactly a long list as yet

Ok , I will focus on Ocalan here not his peace plan , because I do not think there is one ,

Ocalan like or not is a Kurdish leader who has millions who follows him directly and indirectly . He is credited with the kurdish awakening in Northern kurdistan and credited also with establishing the first organized guerrilla movment in Northern Kurdistan after years of turkification which is not something easy .

considering he is the only kurdish leader in the north , his release will be a huge moral victory for kurds and will indirectly means the end of armed struggle and beginning of serious negotiating for kurdish rights within the state .

While many kurds criticize ocalan openly including me , they also support him for what he stood for and what he symbolizes .

Ocalan is a politician and his tactics are very similar to Mam Celal's ones . if you read Mam celal's history and how many time he switched sides and said things he later claimed he did not say or mean you will be shocked .Yet Saddam gave amnesty to all Kurds except Mam Jelal .

Personally I would say that 90% (not including turkified or arabized ) of kurds support Ocalan and PKK , but keeping them in line with our goals through criticism is essential , because neither PKK or Ocalan means Kurdistan and that where the problems are happening . Apo currently is given a status above Kurdistan and Kurdish flag is being set aside in the North which bother lots of Kurds .

So is Ocalan Important ?
He certainly is , otherwise turkey will not go that far to get him arrested and sentence him to life in prison . Keep in mind he could have had the life of comfort if he was willing to give up his principles .

Personally I would say that 90% (not including turkified or arabized ) of kurds support Ocalan and PKK

That is right but most because he is a kind of myth, far from the ground, and he never ruled directly people nor be confronted with electoral process, critics of people, etc. Since 1984, he lives 'out of the world' : at first in a villa in Syria, so far from N. Kurds, only approached in his daily life by selected followers ; and now since 1999, living in a prison, isolated and most of the time living a secret life : in fact no N. Kurds knows who he is, no one can see what he becomes after 14 years of prison.

Being confronted with reality, in a public life, as a 'normal' politician could change this idolatry : for the moment he is like the hidden mahdi of shiites. Everybody can dream of him as a savior.

For Öcalan also the political transition could be a hard transition : the last years of 90s, he was an uncontested 'dictator' in his own movement. Facing a free opinion and contest from Kurds as a normal 'politician' could be difficult for his megalomania.

But it would be a benefit : breaking an idol, and following or no a leader who will have to take unpopular decisions. It would be a way for N. Kurds to reach a political maturity. And for Öcalan also, who knows ?

Piling wrote:That is right but most because he is a kind of myth, far from the ground, and he never ruled directly people nor be confronted with electoral process, critics of people, etc. Since 1984, he lives 'out of the world' : at first in a villa in Syria, so far from N. Kurds, only approached in his daily life by selected followers ; and now since 1999, living in a prison, isolated and most of the time living a secret life : in fact no N. Kurds knows who he is, no one can see what he becomes after 14 years of prison.

Being confronted with reality, in a public life, as a 'normal' politician could change this idolatry : for the moment he is like the hidden mahdi of shiites. Everybody can dream of him as a savior.

For Öcalan also the political transition could be a hard transition : the last years of 90s, he was an uncontested 'dictator' in his own movement. Facing a free opinion and contest from Kurds as a normal 'politician' could be difficult for his megalomania.

All nations have individual who are portrayed as mythical leaders and people do need to dream of a saviour even if he/she is not real . Reality sucks and trust me if we know the reality of Mohamad , Moses and Jesus we would never spend a minute of our lives praying .

It is in people's nature to listen to whoever scream the loudest in the time of crisis and Ocalan was the loudest , but in the time of peace normal people would find what he says annoying and complete none sense .

It is in people's nature to listen to whoever scream the loudest in the time of crisis and Ocalan was the loudest , but in the time of peace normal people would find what he says annoying and complete none sense .

That's the best things that could happen in N. Kurdistan : peace and sense. Then perhaps they will create a new movement, more efficient to claim their rights. Let's hope…

talsor wrote:Keep in mind he could have had the life of comfort if he was willing to give up his principles .

We have NO idea how Ocalan really lives. Just because we were shown pictures of Ocalan's cell does NOT mean that he is actually living in it

Ocalan could be living in a lovely comfortable 5 star apartment

Remember that Ocalan was living in comfort in Damascus while at the same time PKK fighters were imprisoned and tortured in Damascus. He obviously did NOT suffer from any guilt what-so-ever or he would have insisted that he receive the same treatment as his fighters

Anthea wrote:We have NO idea how Ocalan really lives. Just because we were shown pictures of Ocalan's cell does NOT mean that he is actually living in it

Ocalan could be living in a lovely comfortable 5 star apartment

If you are going down that road then Elvis is still alive and Santa Claus is real .

Anthea wrote:Remember that Ocalan was living in comfort in Damascus while at the same time PKK fighters were imprisoned and tortured in Damascus. He obviously did NOT suffer from any guilt what-so-ever or he would have insisted that he receive the same treatment as his fighters

As far as I know the above statement is not true unless you can back it up with some evidence and my dear Anthea , you do not become a leader of a guerrilla movement by being an idealist .

As far as I know he never fought himself and his place in Damascus was quite comfortable. Moreover he allowed himself many things he forbade to other PKK activists if you see what I mean But after all, all the PKK tolerated it so it was their problem…

I see no benefits of this so-called peace plan and despite my requests for information nobody has yet come up with any viable reason to think that this peace plan is anything other than a surrender

It is wrong to surrender. If Ocalan makes the PKK surrender and Kurds give up their hopes and dreams of an Independent Kurdistan in perpetuity, what is left for them

You don't need a list. Before he came to jail he was a real Kurdish leader, who fought for a Kurdish State or autonomy like we have in the South at example. But in this 14 years in prison they probably manipulate him. You must know that Öcalan talked almost every day with Turks how to solve this problem. To be 14 years in prison also affect you badly of course. However, nowadays he is a puppet of Turkey who is used as a weapon to stop the North Kurds and to stop PKK.

And concerning the benefits. The benefits would be zero. The war would be over but all the proud Kurds who died for our Nation would have died for nothing. Nothing would change. One Country, Kurds second and third class People under the Control of Mongols. To follow Öcalan now would be the end of the North Kurds.

People did not believe me when I warned them what would happen. It has been obvious to many of us that Ocalan has changed. He is destroying any hope that Kurds have of an Independent Kurdistan

Anthea wrote:People did not believe me when I warned them what would happen. It has been obvious to many of us that Ocalan has changed. He is destroying any hope that Kurds have of an Independent Kurdistan

Well , I actually had a lot of remembrance concerning Öcalans health and mental stability. To live 14 years in a small cell destroys you head. But not in a Million years I thought he would make a Statement like he did in this letter. I mean, wtf, this letter could be even a letter of Erdogan.

"No Division", "Brotherhood", "Kurds and Turks fought together for this Country", "live in peace in this Country".

Whats with Autonomy? Crime against Kurds? Kurdish Independence? Öcalan has forgotten for what he created PKK. He surely gave up his Goal for Kurdish Autonomy/Country. No doubt. But that wasn't enough. The PKK can leave the borders Thing tops it all, translated it means, PKK should surrender, so should North Kurds surrender and moving on in beein Mountain Turks and living under Turkish flag.

befor i read any post
i have a question
is this ocalan peace plan or erdogan peace plan?

freekurd2013 wrote:befor i read any post
i have a question
is this ocalan peace plan or erdogan peace plan?

Now they are brothers they speak with one TURKISH voice