Peace Agreement between Turkey and Kurdistan

[Djembe]

It looks like, most of the participants in this forum has no confidence that Kurdish people problem in Turkey can be solved within Turkey via autonomy. Based on this reality, I propose to have a debate on post-independence terms. Questions are;

What is border?
What happens to Kurdish people who live in Turkey?
What is potential issues during negotiation?

And what else?

[Djembe]

The Kurdish politician, president of Iraq mentioned to give Autonomy to Turkmen in Kirkuk.

Reference

That should also be part of the process. Not only autonomy, Turkmens should have enclave in Kurdistan. No?

[alan131210]

you want to compare 500,000 to 15-18 million kurds !?? they came from Azerbaijan in Iran , and there already is a "Turkmenistan" . as for kirkuk lol its historically a Kurdish town why would we let turkmen who are minority an autonomy !!! see the 1957 census and see the number of turkmen in the province , it even comes after Arabs even though Arabs migrated from the rest of iraq .

here is a mp of kirkuk by the ottomans your brothers , kirkuk is highlighted in red and it lies within kurdistan region borders .



ottoman map 1893 - kerkuk is within borders of Kurdistan.

turkmen are ONLY majority in one town called Tal Afar which lies in Mosul which isnt in kurdistan so how can an autonomy be granted to the ones in kirkuk which are by the way only a minority !! are you forgetting that autonomy can only be given if a majority can ask or request it !? since kurds are majority in kirkuk they will only make it part of kurdsitan in a referendum which is in the iraqi constitution article 140 .

btw your source is not creditable since its an assyrian website.

[alan131210]

A two state solution for Turkey?
Written on June 23, 2011 by Editor in Turkey


By Daniel Greenfield on Sultan Knish:

http://kurdistantribune.com/2011/two-st ... or-turkey/

[Djembe]

you want to compare 500,000 to 15-18 million kurds !??

There are nations similar 500,000 population i.e. St.Lucia, Vanuatu, San Marino etc.. If they have an independence country, why not for Turkmens. It is not the matter of the quantity. If there is a ethnic separation, based on your standard, there is not reason for them not wanting independence. Why do you have a double standard?

[Djembe]

there already is a "Turkmenistan" .

So is there a Southern Kurdistan for the Kurdish people in Turkey. Why not they migrate to Kurdistan?

[Djembe]

kerkuk is within borders of Kurdistan.

Kurdistan is within borders of Turkey. So what is your point?

[Djembe]

are you forgetting that autonomy can only be given if a majority can ask or request it

I have no problem for with autonomy. The question is independence.

Based on your logic, we should create a The united states of Apache in USA, the united Aboriginalistan in Australia. Also, there should not be independence to English as they are not the indigenous of British Islands. No?

[Djembe]

A two state solution for Turkey?
Written on June 23, 2011 by Editor in Turkey


By Daniel Greenfield on Sultan Knish:

http://kurdistantribune.com/2011/two-st ... or-turkey/

Based on the question on the article.

Do you think the Kurds can now win autonomy in Turkey through parliamentary negotiation?

Yes, I think it's possible (49%, 24 Votes)
No, it will take more than talking (39%, 19 Votes)
Don't know (12%, 6 Votes)


That means, even pro-Kurdish is thinking that political process for autonomy is realistic. So am I. Did not you get it, I am supporting autonomy of cultural, political, economic and democratic rights. So, stop posting links about this. What the issue is here 'INDEPENDENCE'. Capish?

[alan131210]

there already is a "Turkmenistan" .

So is there a Southern Kurdistan for the Kurdish people in Turkey. Why not they migrate to Kurdistan?

how do you give yourself the right for native kurds to abandon there lands 18 million vs 500,000 who came from Azerbaijan province in iran in the 1st place ???? kurds in north are native turkmen can during Ottoman empire as military recruits from Azerbaijan province in iran and they even speak exactly the same dialect and language . how do i know ? i am kirkukian and according to 1957 census the province had kurdish majority so how can a monirity win over majority and ask for autonomy ? in north kurdistan kurds are majority also. turkmen can only ask for autonomy in Mosul Tal Afar town cos they form majority there . kirkuk is heart and Jerusalem of kurdistan buddy , spread this amongst your nation the sooner the better .

[alan131210]

autonomy is followed by independence .... so dont pull this turkmen BS on us , to ask for autonomy 1st you need a referendum , in kirkuk turkmen come even arabs who came from tikrit and only form majority in one town "Hawija" .... turkmen are only in the city and a sub-town called "altun kopri" ..... while the rest of the province has kurdish majority , why do you think the turkmen front party to this day opposes census and referendum ? cos they know they have no chance against kurds . so comparing north kurdistan 18 million kurds to 500,000 turkmen who are spread over in iraq and arent even native and only form a majority in Mosul - Tal Afar town is quite ridiculous , the least . they can all move to Tal afar and ask for autonomy there as they form majority already as for kirkuk , kurds will always control the city like they do now and will only work for annexation to S.kurdistan , kurds hold

governor
Police
security forces
Education
media
finance sector

and only recently the head council was given to a turkmen by kurds even though they didnt have to , but its called mutual agreement so they side their voice with kurds against arabs not vice versa , as arabs to this day occupy turkmen area of altun kopri and refuse to leave .

[alan131210]

I have no problem for with autonomy. The question is independence.

Based on your logic, we should create a The united states of Apache in USA, the united Aboriginalistan in Australia. Also, there should not be independence to English as they are not the indigenous of British Islands. No?

lol your more idiotic than i thought you were , sorry i overestimated you .

those nations have not asked for independence or autonomy so its not like they will get one
2nd they are treated as 1st double class citizens for having double everything from the government
kurds in turkey are the poorest after somalia , they are starved . even now you turned the region into LA they will still want independence after so much shit was done to them by turks which are not forgivable .... so i say it again , independence is inevitable you can slow it down but you cant stop it .

and turkmen can have their autonomy if they come majority within kirkuk province but you know and i know that is not possible so maybe they can form it in Tal afar since they form majority and gathered in one point region that they can press for it , in kirkuk it will never happen as kurds form majority then arabs then turkmen .... which in any census or referendum they will both lost miserably hence they are both against the 2 process and crippled it many times .

[alan131210]

the only thing turkmen can have is move to Turkmenistan or turkey , kurds dont have a county yet but i also suggest all the kurds in Georgia and Armenia which will be easily amounted to number of turkmens to move to south kurdistan . and also should our Feyli kurds in Baghdad.