Kurds are Fathers of Iran

[Ariobarzan]

A reliable source has stated that ArioBarzan was at that demonstration - but he was with the MONARCHISTS - not with the KURDS!!!

your "reliable" source told you exactly who I am by reading one post from me?????

I just can't get enough of this one. talk about the fastest way to discredit yourselves.


man o man PM me when the adult version of this site opens.

[Diri]

If ArioBarzan recognizes the natural right of Kurds for self-determination and independence, so what is his point about unification with Tajiks and Hazara of Central Asia?

Let me be the one who has answered the question directed to me, and not Diri. from the short time I have got to know him he seems like a brave kid who in unfortunately naive and a bit impatient hence jumping the gun and answering on my behalf what my ideology is when infact I have not declared it in regards to Kurd's rights in no place in my post.

The question wasn't directed at you... Note; you are mentioned in 3th person... I'll ignore the rest of your cheap talk...

Ofcourse I am in agreement with a group of people choosing their own destiny , to think otherwise is classic dictatorship If the people of fars province in Iran decide to seperate from Iran and create their own country encouraging other fars (pars I should say) people in Iran and other "countries" such as in Bahrain, Kuwait, to seperate themselves from arabs and other Iranics say Baluch, Azeri, Parthians, I would totally be OK because it was their decision. But that to me would be the same as what you are trying to do, because the fact remains Perisans are as much Iranian as are Kurds, Mazandaranis, Baluch, as are Tajiks.

If a referendum is held and the majority want to seperate more power to them, however the facts and other opinions must be expressed and respected as well. I am as I mentioned from Sanandaj on my father's side but Persian (ashtiani) and a little Azari from mother side so a while back I decided to explore further the Iranic Kurd roots as I was so disappoiunted to learn that not all kurds think like my family and are not aware of who they are so I went with my friend to Kurdistan, this is where we researched the avesta Gata by Gata and learned Zarathushtrra was indeed in those hills and mountains (Kurds are not Iranian?? what nonsense) .

Unfortunately I could not travel to the Iraqi part as there was much turmoil then there. Me and my friend spent days in the villages mentioned in my original post.

From my limited reading of this site I can guarantee you that there aren't many Iranian Kurds arguing with me and the facts here. Iranian Kurds consider themselves Iranian and of Iranian race for the MOST part. This conclusion was not drawn out of my behind, and it wasn't reached by just talking to my dad's family, it was observed from days and nights of spending time with the most Kurdish of the Kurds. If a Turkish Kurd dislikes the Turk, a Iraqi Kurd dislikes the arab, but an Iranian Kurd not only does not feel dislike but for the most part feels kinship and attatchment to Iran this is due to the Kurds' long kingship with Iran and its Iranic roots, one can not deny this.

Unfortunately this is not the same when I encountered the Kurds from Turkey . WHy?????? simple because they don't KNOW. thats all. when I asked them putting all politics aside do they feel any different closeness to the Iranian, the Turk , or the Arab they said no. How could anyone who speaks the same language , celebrates the same historical occasions, and has the same forefathers does not feel closer to Iran as opposed to the Arab and the Turk . this is simple Ignorance, and it is our responsibility to clear the ignorance at the very least before any group decides to create their own country.

If a referndum would be held as I mentioned earlier and the vote would be for a seperate Kurdistan I would respect that so I am not against it if people decide it, however, I think a seperate referndum has to be held in Iran , and in Turkey to join norther Iraq which is already on its way there because I gaurantee you the Iranian Kurd feels alot closer and know about their Iranian origins . for example, GOOD LUCK SEPERATING Kermanshah from Iran....not in a million years they won't leave. They are as Iranian as they come. They are so Iranian and nationalistic that they may even take arms against such attempts.

SO I think the Turkish Kurd and the Iraqi Kurd need to first learn who they really are then decide to do whatever they want with the knowledge in hand and without ignorance. And if they decide that all these facts that indenyably (sp?) ties them to Iran is not just there to look at and is indeed as important as a nation's identity and decide to be part of a federalist system which would include all lands of Kurdistan in a federal greater Iran...well wouldn't that be a suprepower to be recon with.

A superpower which is not synthetic like the European union, but real with all its people sharing the same blood, the same history, the same goals, simple said THE SAME PAST AND THE SAME FUTURE. here is just another idea.

As far as the big mr. womanizer and the such I have decided to draw a line between ignorance and severe ignorance so no comment to his attacks and others alike.

REGARDS,
ARIOBARZAN

Good... Now we have that cleared up too...

Please don't use "northern Iraq" or "Turkish Kurds" or other such denegrading terms... We are (Kurdistanî) KURDS and we are from (Southern - Eastern - Northern & Western) KURDISTAN - so use the proper Kurdish terms if you truly are a KURD and if you truly do advocate a federal and democratic platform...

Let me add - there are several reasons why Northern Kurds (NOT "Turkish Kurds") are somewhat less educated about their history etc. - the reasons can be summed up quite simply as "oppression", genocide after genocide (Dersîm, Şirnex/Sêrt etc.), rapings, massacres, direct military rule in Northern Kurdistan for longer periods of time, constant state of war, deportations, assimilation policies and so on and so forth...

when I asked them putting all politics aside do they feel any different closeness to the Iranian, the Turk , or the Arab they said no. How could anyone who speaks the same language , celebrates the same historical occasions, and has the same forefathers does not feel closer to Iran as opposed to the Arab and the Turk .

Notice either your question was wrong (you should have changed "Iran" with "Iranians") OR you simply misspelt the word here - thinking "Iranians" but mistakingly writing "Iran" instead... Which one is it?

Because "Iran" is the state - naturally they'll answer NONE when you ask about the state Iran - if you had asked about Iranians and not Iran - maybe you'd gotten a different answer...

Speaking hypothetically here - which way exactly did you ask your question? Was it with "Iran" or "Iranians" in the second time you mentioned them along with "Turks" and "Arabs"...?

[Ariobarzan]

you wrote : The question wasn't directed at you... Note; you are mentioned in 3th person... I'll ignore the rest of your cheap talk...






You decided to conclude from reading my one post which was only speaking of history what my idea of a free Kurdistan is ...this is impatience , this is deciding for someone else without any knowledge, 1st person or 10th person






you wrote : Good... Now we have that cleared up too...

Please don't use "northern Iraq" or "Turkish Kurds" or other such denegrading terms... We are (Kurdistanî) KURDS and we are from (Southern - Eastern - Northern & Western) KURDISTAN - so use the proper Kurdish terms if you truly are a KURD and if you truly do advocate a federal and democratic platform...

Let me add - there are several reasons why Northern Kurds (NOT "Turkish Kurds") are somewhat less educated about their history etc. - the reasons can be summed up quite simply as "oppression", genocide after genocide (Dersîm, Şirnex/Sêrt etc.), rapings, massacres, direct military rule in Northern Kurdistan for longer periods of time, constant state of war, deportations, assimilation policies and so on and so forth...

when I asked them putting all politics aside do they feel any different closeness to the Iranian, the Turk , or the Arab they said no. How could anyone who speaks the same language , celebrates the same historical occasions, and has the same forefathers does not feel closer to Iran as opposed to the Arab and the Turk .

Notice either your question was wrong (you should have changed "Iran" with "Iranians") OR you simply misspelt the word here - thinking "Iranians" but mistakingly writing "Iran" instead... Which one is it?

Because "Iran" is the state - naturally they'll answer NONE when you ask about the state Iran - if you had asked about Iranians and not Iran - maybe you'd gotten a different answer...

Speaking hypothetically here - which way exactly did you ask your question? Was it with "Iran" or "Iranians" in the second time you mentioned them along with "Turks" and "Arabs"...?
















I think we are getting somewhere now a man to man talk with logic and understanding, I will try to use appropriate words since it seems to be obviously a sensetive subject in this free Kurdistan site.

Norhtern Kurds have had very little kinship feeling at all toward Iranians. I am not looking for emotional BS attatchments or kinship just demonstrates pure Ignorance of one's roots which is a shame.


Regards,

ArioBarzan

[/quote]

[Gudea]

ArioBarzan you say ''Lets not let emotions blind us from our origins and historical facts'',
well, our origins and historical facts both are acedemic topics, which in some cases can emotionally impress some people or not.
But our current situation and interests are what we should not regard with emotions
History, tels us that Persian nationalism never tolerated Kurds, as equal citizens rather than second or third class citizens.
Just look at pahlavi and Islamic rep eras to see how they treat(ed) Kurds.

[womanizer]

@Ariobarzan
There is No such thing as Iranian, we are Kurds kurdistani we are children of Medes, Mitani, Guti.
Never been irani never will be..it shame yourself because you can’t be like us, you different race and we are the First of fisrt,,dodo!!! So don’t puts cheaper name so called irani on us… if you cant handle you chauvinist nad racist and cheap propaganda.
You talking about adult!! F*** Persian, you are whore porno nation, you know what Kurds carrying it is very famous??. We the highlanders remember!!!
so sorry for sweet a***
Today country so called Iran, having illegal boundaries, soon like iraq will turn to pieces, and eastern Kurdistan will be librated as well as Baluchistan nation and Azeri nation.
That is all, so that time you can have your Iranian nation in north India.

[Gudea]

Womanizer please dont swear like that!
(You can use the '''edit''' on the right side of the page to edit your comments.)

[womanizer]

Gudea Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:53 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Womanizer please dont swear like that!
(You can use the '''edit''' on the right site of the page to edit your comments.)

sorry bro, this guy was telling Diri about Adult staff piss me off!!
i applogies !!

[Diri]

Thank you Womanizer for editing yourself... We are all very passionate, naturally - but we should controll ourselves and discuss in a polite and civil manner... Sipas!


Gudea is right... Kurdishness - or nationalism has always been like a threath to Persian nationalism and dominion/hegemony of the Middle East...

[Diri]

Thank you Womanizer for editing yourself... We are all very passionate, naturally - but we should controll ourselves and discuss in a polite and civil manner... Sipas!


Gudea is right... Kurdishness - or nationalism has always been like a threath to Persian nationalism and dominion/hegemony of the Middle East...

[Gudea]

Gudea is right... Kurdishness - or nationalism has always been like a threath to Persian nationalism and dominion/hegemony of the Middle East...

Not only Kurdish nationalism, but also Kurds demands for their legitimate rights such as right of education in their own language has been regarded as a threat by the Iranian and persian nationalism.

[Parsi]

Gudea is right... Kurdishness - or nationalism has always been like a threath to Persian nationalism and dominion/hegemony of the Middle East...

Not only Kurdish nationalism, but also Kurds demands for their legitimate rights such as right of education in their own language has been regarded as a threat by the Iranian and persian nationalism.

I wouldn't call it a threat to Iranian nationalism. Most Iranians don't care what language you speak as long as you can communicate affectively with them.

It's a threat to the Iranian government because Parsi is the one and only official language of Iran and their corrupt laws and policies are in that language. And if Kurdi and Torki were effectively taught, then there is a greater chance of things happening and them not knowing about it because they can't understand either language. Why do you think they recently officially banned the speaking of Torki in schools? What a big "coincidence" that it happened right after the Azari protest

A multi-lingual Iran is best. Learning more than one language never hurt anyone and in most times it's to your benefit. I think Kurdi and Parsi should def be an official language because of their Aryan roots and long history together, but Torki is spoken by a lot of people so that should become official too. It would help us communicate much easier with and against the Turkic nations.

[Gudea]

I am not talking about speaking Kurdish at schools, but education of the Kurdish language at schools, alongside Persian, like any modern country which respects its ethnic diversity.

[Parsi]

I am not talking about speaking Kurdish at schools, but education of the Kurdish language at schools, alongside Persian, like any modern country which respects its ethnic diversity.

I know...you were talking about teaching Kurdish at schools...

I said that Iran should have three official languages taught in schools...Parsi, Kurdi, and Torki.

[Ariobarzan]

ArioBarzan you say ''Lets not let emotions blind us from our origins and historical facts'',
well, our origins and historical facts both are acedemic topics, which in some cases can emotionally impress some people or not.
But our current situation and interests are what we should not regard with emotions
History, tels us that Persian nationalism never tolerated Kurds, as equal citizens rather than second or third class citizens.
Just look at pahlavi and Islamic rep eras to see how they treat(ed) Kurds.

First let me thank you for an intelligent post. Very well said. However, this is certainly a different time for Iranians. Although it has always been the governments and not the Iranian people who opressed the Kurds, you are correct in saying that Kurds were treated differently and as second class citizens before (so were the baluchis, the Azaris, and even the Persians themselves from villages were always treated poorly) however, currently due to the experiences of Iranians in the past decades specially under the Islamic regime and the brave Kurd's resistance to the regime, and through much Sole-Searching of the Persians and all Iranic people (the Islamic regime actually caused all Iranians to search in their past and learn alot more about their roots , instead of making the people Islamic it has actually caused them to become alot less Islamic and alot more Iranian) NOW, Iranians not only respect the Kurd as their Iranian brother but they see them as one of oldest and purest Iranian people and they respect as one of the elite Iranians. I am sure some of Iranians on this forum weather Kurd or not can back me up on this. From personal experiences to general observation of even the politics that are forming every where you look the Kurd status is growing among Iranians.

Every Iranian gathering or party I go to as soon as I mention I am Kurd on my dad side they have nothing but respect for our people. This is the truth and unless you are in Iran or know Iranians you don't understand this . As I mentioned as the topic of this thread Iranian opposition groups also recognize this. Mr. Fouladvand who is a constitutional monarchist has repeatedly called Kurds the fathers of Iran, now here is a monarchist which according to you guys hate Kurds who every time he talks he goes out of his way to talk about Kurds and how honorable and how special they are and how all Iranians must respect them as the fathers of Iran.

With this trend of the Kurd and his status in Iran which many may not have been aware of, then History and our Iranian roots can and should
play a factor in our decision to seperate or be in a federal system with our other Iranian kins. Now when I say federal , I am not sure if you all are understanding me, a federal system will have almost independent states with their own language and law system (like states in USA which have their own way of running things...but even more independant), so the future could have Kurdistan, Azarbaijan, Persia, Tajikistan, Khuzestan, Baluchestan, and Northern Afghanistan, all Iranic people all intelligent all free (hopefully one day) and all full of resources sharing the same blood, the same past, and the same future. This will be a SUPERPOWER. It is the dream of the westerner to divide and opress. this way he ensures everyone stays weak


If we rid ourselves of religious superstition and search in our past we will only UNITED (In my opinion united with all Iranic peopole) be strong, and start flying again.




Baaz boom, baali shekanam chuar balaay nahsi kharaw
khaneghah yek tekyeh du Amameh seh, abaa chuar

[Ariobarzan]

Mr. big womanizer,

With that attitude and that grammer, I doubt you are much of a womanizer, its more like wishful thinking, I estimate.


You keep bragging about your Meddes roots, who do you think Medes were?

This is just basic stuff, don't have to be a history guru to know that Medes and Persians were both the exact same people, except the medes went and settled in Zagros mountains and Persians settled in Iranian plateu. That is the only difference : where they lived. Like as you say today northern Kurds and eastern Kurds ....same people different geographical residence. SAME EXACT THING happened with Medes and Perisans.

Here : how it works one more time, since I know you are the type who needs lots of explaining: 1-Aryans came down to Iran 2- some of them went inland (persians). 2- some of them went west (Kurds). thats it . see that wasn't so hard.

Quick example : Intermarriage in ancient Iran did not exist. Persians eventhough very tolerant to others always married Persians, even at the height of Persian empire, when Iran ruled all nations from egypt to greece to India, Persians were very tolerant and "JUST" but did not mix, this was their culture to keep their aryan heritage, but they married medes and vise versa all the time why you ask??? BINGO. because they were the same and they knew it.

Example you want, ok : Cyrus the great, father of Iran, 2500 years ago mother :Mandana (medes, Kurd) father: Persian. In Persopolis you see soldiers walking toward king Darius with gifts. Armenians, arabs, indians, phenocians, .... all walk toward Darius. only the Persian and the Medes stand on the other side greeting the guest nations, WHY???? BINGO . they were and are the same blood.

For such a simple historical fact that everyone should know I don't think I need any links of documents just type in Medes in any encyclopedia and your read the same story...Persian and Medes were the same. But I will include the links any way, just because I get a feeling you will need them. and if you are still not convinced D-Nile is not only a river in Egypt.

The Medes (Kurdish Mêdî or Mâd, Modern Persian مادها, Mādḥā) were an ancient Iranian people, who lived in the north, western, and northwestern portions of present-day Iran, and roughly the areas of present day Tehran, Hamedan, Azarbaijan, north of Esfahan, Zanjan, and Kurdistan. This region was known in Greek as Media (Μηδία). By the 6th century BC, the Medes were able to establish an empire that stretched from Aran province (the modern-day Republic of Azerbaijan) to north and Central Asia and Afghanistan.

The Medes (Kurdish Mêdî or Mâd, Modern Persian مادها, Mādḥā) were an ancient Iranian people, who lived in the north, western, and northwestern portions of present-day Iran, and roughly the areas of present day Tehran, Hamedan, Azarbaijan, north of Esfahan, Zanjan, and Kurdistan. This region was known in Greek as Media (Μηδία). By the 6th century BC, the Medes were able to establish an empire that stretched from Aran province (the modern-day Republic of Azerbaijan) to north and Central Asia and Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes

"....The Medes are credited with the foundation of Iran as a nation and empire, and established the first Iranian empire, the largest of its day until Cyrus the Great established a unified empire of the Medes and Persians, often referred to as the Achaemenid Persian Empire, by defeating his grandfather and overlord, Astyages the shah of Media. Until that point, all Iranians were referred to as Mede or Mada......"


http://www.britannica.com/search?query=medes&ct=


"....one of an Indo-European people, related to the Persians, who entered northeastern Iran probably as early as the 17th century BC and settled in the plateau land that came to be known as Media"


I SPECIALLY LIKE THIS ONE BECAUSE IT IS FROM THE SITE HISTORY FOR KIDS, should be better for you

http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/wes ... rsians.htm


"......Around 1200 BC, some new people invaded West Asia from the north. These people were called the Persians and the Medes. Both of them were Indo-European people, distantly related to the Hittites, the Greeks and the Romans......"