Armenian genocide

[zurderer]

Ruled good world, not majority. Even now, Mardin(center) is arab majority and Kurdish majority was impossible at that times. So how did kurds rule mardin? Oh of course, They attacked


I do not even talk about urfa.

[Savy]

Kurds didn't attack anything. Kurdish presence in Northern Mesopotamia dates back to Achamines Empire of Persia. There were several ancient cities scattered in that region, such as Dara. Back then, when agrarian economy was dominant; cities didn't have much importance but the countryside had. Towns were not secure. Villagers had to build up their houses to the top of the mountins in order to get protected from the marauders coming from deep down Arabic, as it was the case with Souther Eastern Turkey.
Read Marco Polo's journey's. You will see that Kurds were habiting as far as Bayburt. They had been even in Georgia around in the 11-12th century.

Arabic settlement in that region is relatively new. Just after the Umayyid Conquest. Northern Mesopotamia was under the rule of Kurdish dynasties; they were vassals to the Greater Umayyid-Abbasid Sultans. Of course, the region preserved its multi-ethnic composition. However the rulers were of Kurdish origin. It was the Mongol conquest that devastated the region. Towns were ruined, people were decimated. Then again, people had to shelter to the mountins to shelter from the bloody slaughters. Population of the cities declined. Urban activity diminished.

[Piling]

Oh yeah sure, we should be impressed by the number of Armenians living currently in Turkey if we compare it to their number in 1914.

Totally unrelated.

Oh yeah sure ! If Armenian population disappeared in one year from Anatolia it is only because of Spanish flu.

[zurderer]

No need to try bo become an intelligent ass. Your are not succeding.

I already said ethnic cleansing.

[matin123]

Kurds never invaded anyone else's land. There is a reason that Kurds are called a "nomadic people". If I'm mistaken, please be specific.

By the way, Kurds that move from North Kurdistan to Istanbul to work is not considered invading.

Also, I can't prove to you that the Armenian genocide exists if you dismiss the pictures on the 1st page off as propaganda.

[zurderer]

Towns were not secure. Villagers had to build up their houses to the top of the mountins in order to get protected from the marauders coming from deep down Arabic, as it was the case with Souther Eastern Turkey.


did you ever go and see towns at mardin? (It is non-kurds who build their town to top.) Kurds were only majority after ww1. This include a lot other cities. Maybe except, hakkari, batman, diyarbakır and some town. Kurds gain majority at Mardin, Van, Sirt and most of north kurdistan after the ww1. So history does not give any help to kurds at this point. So pls spare your we came first arguments.




Kurds never invaded anyone else's land. There is a reason that Kurds are called a "nomadic people". If I'm mistaken, please be specific.

So who do you think hamidiyes? or how many kurd helped Turks invasion too anatolia? or what the hell selahaddin doing at egypt?(Or now he is not kurdish?) or do you think kurds are peace loving nomads.. By the way, why do you think becoming nomadic means not to attack other people? what is relation?

[Piling]

No need to try bo become an intelligent ass. Your are not succeding.

I already said ethnic cleansing.

An ethnic cleansing which had provoked the death of AT LEAST 800 000 Armenians (Official ottoman sources) and the disapearance of all a population on its historical land is a genocide.

[zurderer]

which official ottoman sources?

[Vladimir]

Genocide is a 'legal' term. It's created by a Jewish lawyer in order to prosecute the Nazi's. Therefore Zurderer uses ethnic cleansing, which signifies no legal percussions. Nobody talks about all the 'Turks' and non-Turkic muslims who were ethnic cleansed in the Balkans/Crimeria/Caucasus. Which is the result of a black and white view that the 'Turks' are barbarians that slaughter everybody that opposes them. While similar violence was committed by other nationalist states all over Europe. Including the christian nationalist Balkan states that expelled the muslims. Why do you think Turkish nationalism was so anti-christian? One of the major inspirations of nationalist Turks was revolutionary France. France tried to homogenize the French country and assimilate 'minorities'.

[zurderer]

Haha Vladamir dont tell this to piling. Her heart would be broken If She learn every disgusting part of Turkey(Nationalism, Kemalism even laisizm.) is taken by france with copying their system.

to bad our ancestors did not copy anglos. Our country would be a better place.

[matin123]

@ Mr. Zurderer

Salahadin protected and saved Islam from the crusaders. His fight against the crusaders was not faught as a Kurdish nationalist, it was as a MUSLIM. Of course Salahadin was a Kurd, but he fought for his faith, not to conquer other lands.

Do you think it is like today when Kurds and Turks hated eachother? Persians and Arabs hated eachother? I don't know the answer to that, but obviously Arabs, Turks, Kurds, Persians, etc. joined together as Muslims to fight a common enemy.

And yes, I do believe that Kurds are peace loving. (I'm not saying that all Kurds are peace loving, because I don't like to generalize about any race)
But if Salahadin was not peace loving, why would he protect the Jews of Jerusalem from the crusaders?

In my opinion, any person who is a true believer of G^D and follows his laws (Whether through the Torah, the Bible, or the Quran) will be peace loving.

We don't agree on the Armenian genocide, but do you agree with me about Salahadin?

[Piling]

Haha Vladamir dont tell this to piling. Her heart would be broken If She learn every disgusting part of Turkey(Nationalism, Kemalism even laisizm.) is taken by france with copying their system.

to bad our ancestors did not copy anglos. Our country would be a better place.

Do u think I ignored it ? And I agree for England, though I suspect that if some Turks would have chosen the English system or the Spanish one, they would have wished to resolve the Irish issue as Mrs Thatcher wanted to do, or the Basque's problem as Franco did. When Kurds will have the same rights than currently in Corsica, Alsacian or Basques in France it would be a great steps, as Baskin Oran pointed in its minority reports. Even France had to accept somes facts, but I suppose Turkey will rather separate itself from Kurdish areas than changing its own system.

Why do you think Turkish nationalism was so anti-christian?

Oh Turkish nationalists don't make such discrimination, you're wrong. They are anti-christians, anti-Jews, anti-Alevis, BUT anti-islamists also ; they are for a united Turkey but they are anti-Kurds, anti-Arabs, anti-Armenians, anti-Greeks, etc. They are for a one Turkish citizenship but they refuse to reform the legal status of Greeks and other Christians in Turkey who are legally "foreign citizens of Turkey"... They are also anti-Europeans but they refuse to be a Middle-Eastern people. They are anti-US but they see communists everywhere. In fact Turkey needs a big general psycho-analysis...

[zurderer]

Salahadin protected and saved Islam from the crusaders. His fight against the crusaders was not faught as a Kurdish nationalist, it was as a MUSLIM. Of course Salahadin was a Kurd, but he fought for his faith, not to conquer other lands.

Oh. Plsss. This is like saying Ottomans saved islam bla bla bla. Yeah, all of them saved islam from some enemies but still they attacked others land. By the way, Salahadin was a citizen of selcuks, His precedor is a turk named zengi. So you cannot say Turks attacked other lands, They are protecting islam:P


[quote] Do you think it is like today when Kurds and Turks hated eachother? Persians and Arabs hated eachother? I don't know the answer to that, but obviously Arabs, Turks, Kurds, Persians, etc. joined together as Muslims to fight a common enemy. [quote]

It is unrelated. Crusaders are not such a big enemy. Only first crusader succeded(Should remind you, It is also weaken at anatolia by Turks.) Second one destroyed at the anatolia.(So Turks saved islam too.) It is not a common enemy too. A lot factions allied with crusaders time to time.


[quote] And yes, I do believe that Kurds are peace loving. (I'm not saying that all Kurds are peace loving, because I don't like to generalize about any race) But if Salahadin was not peace loving, why would he protect the Jews of Jerusalem from the crusaders? [quote]

Kurds are absolutely not peace loving. They(Turks are too.) are warlike people that is why ottomans used kurds so much.

It was ottomans who opened their land to jews of spain. So Fatih Sultan Mehmet or Kanuni also peace loving? Ottomans even protected gypsies. It is why, roma people of canakkale now call themself as evlad-ı fatihan.

[zurderer]

Oh Turkish nationalists don't make such discrimination, you're wrong. They are anti-christians, anti-Jews, anti-Alevis, BUT anti-islamists also ; they are for a united Turkey but they are anti-Kurds, anti-Arabs, anti-Armenians, anti-Greeks, etc.


Uh infact, It is wrong. They are mostly anti-christian(Greeks and armenians are christians.). That is why muslim subject lived a relatively easy life. Becoming anti-kurds is a new phenomen. It is a known fact, before Kenan Evren, MHP had a lot vote from kurds.(Also in reality, Leader of MHP is better than CHP at kurdish issues.)

But ulusalcıs are different, They are taking nazi example but They are a minority of minority. It is absurd to say, They represent nationalists.



Do u think I ignored it ? And I agree for England, though I suspect that if some Turks would have chosen the English system or the Spanish one, they would have wished to resolve the Irish issue as Mrs Thatcher wanted to do, or the Basque's problem as Franco did.

Maybe but english are know for not using unnecessary cruelty.

[matin123]

"Oh. Plsss. This is like saying Ottomans saved islam bla bla bla. Yeah, all of them saved islam from some enemies but still they attacked others land. By the way, Salahadin was a citizen of selcuks, His precedor is a turk named zengi. So you cannot say Turks attacked other lands, They are protecting islam:P"

If Turks never attacked other lands, why are there so many Turks spread throughout the middle east? Aren't countrys like Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan Turkic countrys?

"Kurds are absolutely not peace loving. They(Turks are too.) are warlike people that is why ottomans used kurds so much."

It's true that Kurds are warlike, but we are warlike in the same way that Afghans are warlike. Not in the same way that the Arabs and Genghis Khan were warlike.