PKK in Turkey

[Arashi]

I have a question for the Kurdish inhabitants of this forum...

How is the general feeling among Kurds regarding the crimes/actions commited by the PKK in Turkey? Is it seen as justified or crude? Do Kurds in general condone, for example, the acts of terroristic nature by the PKK, or is it accepted/denied or simply the oppressors propaganda? Does it take away the credibility of the organisation?

Thank you

[Diri]

First of all, you are talking in terms of an outsider...

Meaning 90% of Kurds will say the PKK is not doing any terrorist activities... They'll say; It's not terrorism to defend your land and people - that is called fighting for freedom and liberation...

Secondly, even in the terms of an outsider - the PKK doesn't do terrorism... Terrorism is the act of creating terror to spread fear among the civili population for example by bombings...

Well the PKK doesn't do that either... TAK - "Teyrên Bazên Kurdistanê" do that - in the tourist areas... Setting out bombs I mean...

Anyway- I'll wait to see what others have to say...

Thank you for an interesting topic...

[Arashi]

Although it's difficult to sift out truth from propaganda and lies, a great number of civilian deaths have been attributed to the PKK since the 80ies; some cases were clearly terroristic of nature (i.e. pulling out civilians out of cars and mowing them down, blowing up schoolbuses, etc).
Isn't TAK a recent group? What about the violence during the 90ies (alleged murders of teachers, raids, roadside executions, etc)?

[Diri]

Although it's difficult to sift out truth from propaganda and lies, a great number of civilian deaths have been attributed to the PKK since the 80ies; some cases were clearly terroristic of nature (i.e. pulling out civilians out of cars and mowing them down, blowing up schoolbuses, etc).
Isn't TAK a recent group? What about the violence during the 90ies (alleged murders of teachers, raids, roadside executions, etc)?

The PKK only killed people of the state:

Soldiers
Police
Teachers

These three are not "civilian"... Not to the PKK and not to the Kurds... Because they each have their weapon;

The soldier has the gun...
The police has his batton to enforce his will ("the law")...
The teacher has the pen to brainwash and propagate his own propaganda...


Thus none of them are "civilian" - and all deserve a round of beating in my oppinion...

I think you know too little of the PKK and the actions carried out by the Turkish army and Turkish state...

In 99% of the cases where civilians (ACTUAL civilians - not the three I mentioned) were "terrorised" it was actually done by the Turkish state - through their jandarma or army - and then blamed on the PKK to give the PKK a bad reputation... The state has a propaganda media - the PKK had nothing but it's AK47...

You can hardly believe the Turkish state after Susurluk and Shemdinli (Shemzînan)... Look into those two cases - then you'll understand what I mean about Turkey doing bad things in the name of the PKK...

[Arashi]

Although it's difficult to sift out truth from propaganda and lies, a great number of civilian deaths have been attributed to the PKK since the 80ies; some cases were clearly terroristic of nature (i.e. pulling out civilians out of cars and mowing them down, blowing up schoolbuses, etc).
Isn't TAK a recent group? What about the violence during the 90ies (alleged murders of teachers, raids, roadside executions, etc)?

The PKK only killed people of the state:

Soldiers
Police
Teachers

These three are not "civilian"... Not to the PKK and not to the Kurds... Because they each have their weapon;

The soldier has the gun...
The police has his batton to enforce his will ("the law")...
The teacher has the pen to brainwash and propagate his own propaganda...


Thus none of them are "civilian" - and all deserve a round of beating in my oppinion...

I think you know too little of the PKK and the actions carried out by the Turkish army and Turkish state...

In 99% of the cases where civilians (ACTUAL civilians - not the three I mentioned) were "terrorised" it was actually done by the Turkish state - through their jandarma or army - and then blamed on the PKK to give the PKK a bad reputation... The state has a propaganda media - the PKK had nothing but it's AK47...

You can hardly believe the Turkish state after Susurluk and Shemdinli (Shemzînan)... Look into those two cases - then you'll understand what I mean about Turkey doing bad things in the name of the PKK...

This is why I ask - I suspect half of them to be Turkish propaganda. Then again, according to you, Kurds support the killing of civilians (teachers ARE civilians, advocating murdering of teachers is...sick to say the least. Reminds me of IRI ), so I'd rather believe Amnesty and Human Rights groups. There are far too many incidents of civilians killed wantonly, and blaming all of them on Turks is ignorant.

I guess you've answered my initial question - PKK's actions are either denied or accepted

[abdur]

I think what Diri wrote above is actually the view of the majority of kurds, including pkk-sympathisers.
Generally there has been an acceptance of attacking military objects (turkish army, southern peshmerga), economic objects (europe and west of turkey) teachers, muxtars, village guards and spies (including people who run away from the party).

The involmement of systematical attacks on family of the village guards, the family of peshmerga, a couple suicide missions, drug trafficing and the latest bomb attacks in the west of turkey is denied and stated as foreign propaganda or as collateral damage. The latest example is simply being put in the name of an outside party (tak).

Although there is a very strong turkish state propaganda, which is committing state terrorism including extra-judicial killings since the beginning of the conflict i disagree with the figure of 99% given by Diri. In my view both sides are fighting dirty. Launching a kurdish struggle was legitimate in the 80's because the impossibility of political struggle, nowadays i cant say its legitimate to start/continue a war.

[tomjez]

The PKK only killed people of the state:

Soldiers
Police
Teachers

Wrong, they killed kurds as well, villages who didn't want to support the PKK.

[Piling]

And they kill Kurdish politicians opposited to the PKK.

[abdur]

I dont think Arashi is asking who is right/wrong but what the majority of kurds believe. Since both sides of the camps have strong propaganda machines there are relatively few kurds who have an objective view on this conflict, it's mostly pro-pkk or pro-turkey.

[dyaoko]

I as a kurd feel shame to find out that PKK has done terrorist attacks against civilians (like teachers...) ofcourse I hope they be lie and propagenda of turkish terror satae (as there are SO MUCH propagenda by turkish governemnt and unfortunately Western Medias support theim) , but I dont feel sad to see turkish army be killed by pkk , even though I dont think it is a good way to continue the strugle either.

I belive compared to other terrorist groups (Hamas , Taliban, Hizbollah), PKK has done nothing and it has a better ideology than those other terrorists , So I cant see them equal as Hamas or Taliban.

and in policy and way of going , I dont like their strategy , PKK has messed up , they have to get ride of some stupid things and be more celver.

[womanizer]

Come on peoples why you having such personal attack on PKK. PKK like other party is Kurdistan party, The geriila(peşmerge) are freedom fighters ,they fighting for their homeland kurdistan. There is no doubt in any gerilla warfare a lot tragedy and mistake or power abuse from some individual taken place, innocent peopls get killed. But that is nothing to do with Kurdistan national legitimate right , which is PKK stand for and fight in 4 front in occupy parts .PKK is kurdistan national prty, is not party of part.
You all sound representing Turkish or Iranian foreign ministry, for god sake what is wrong with you!!
While media and forum is essential to discuss Kurdish issue in health way, world already heard enough from Turks Arabs, Persian that Kurds are trrorist and killers? Why you peoples consider yourself as kurd or Kurdish friend doing this??? all your mouth coming out PKK as Killer, are you insane??
@Diri @ abudr!! dudes. Killing Teachers..peşmerges!! you guys have no brain at all, is that way you promoting Kurdish cause to world?? What kind brainless person talk like that??
There was time Kurds been played in hand enemys and kurds been killing each other(there is no party in kurdistan which haven’t experience that regardless who was right or wrong, all have done mistakes and they let thire nation down)!! Wake peoples!!likepresident Barzani puted it, the day Kurds kill ing each other is Over!! Our struggle and life never been easy. whole world have Kurdish blood on their hand and whole world powesr and regional powers take in patsand put kurds against each other, today that time is over, Kurds are one and united more than ever
Therefore,
With all respect to all, , you have right to critic of PKK in professional manners like critising other kurdistani parties(such as KDP,YNK,RKDP,KKP..etc..)
But those who knowingly targeting our nation, and creating division among, are worse than our enemies and they can keep their fake symbolic friendship forthemsleves.

[Arashi]

I belive compared to other terrorist groups (Hamas , Taliban, Hizbollah), PKK has done nothing and it has a better ideology than those other terrorists , So I cant see them equal as Hamas or Taliban.

Is that so? What has the Hezbollah done which is worse than the PKK? Except being Arab Shias, of course

[Diri]

The additional info by Abdur, Tomjez and Piling is also right...


Womanizer - the PKK killed Turkish teachers... That isn't a lie...

[zurderer]

Well the PKK doesn't do that either... TAK - "Teyrên Bazên Kurdistanê" do that - in the tourist areas... Setting out bombs I mean...

is there any difference? Of course they have different name, but both ruled by some people.

Plus pkk attacked tourists too.

[zurderer]

Soldiers
Police
Teachers

These three are not "civilian"... Not to the PKK and not to the Kurds... Because they each have their weapon;

Indeed, You dont deserve teachers, you dont also deserve doctors. You dont deserve bussiness men too. All of them are spies of Turkish goverment.

But why do you want them so much? You cry for teacher, doctors or bussiness men. Next time dont kill people, so maybe You wont scare doctors, teachers or bussiness men.

Anyway, You are right, we should not sent these people to kurdistan, we dont waste our people for some people like you.