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Zazaistan Flag

About history of Kurdistan and middle east and the world.

Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: Londoner » Mon May 19, 2008 6:43 am

Proud-Zaza wrote:
="nurayşıma xêr amey...
no diri is a kurd. why you bring religion into this topic? no, in the past the religion of most zaza was zoroastrism. now most zaza are muslim, some are sunni and some are alevi...
i agree with you about türkiye.
no there are zaza that think they are kurds and zaza that think they are zaza. some zaza even think they are türks. also some zaza know kurdish dialects, and some speak zazaki. most i know do not know much zazaki.


Nuray,
for me I don´t care how other Zazas decide. Eyerone is old enough! As I told before, some Zazas became Turkish and some other became Kurdish. And the most Zazas - We are what we are! I am proud to be a Zaza and thank God for it! I don´t need a second Identity! My whole familiy and relatives are Zazas. Nothing more.

But I see, this kurdish forum is not the right place for me. I should look after a Zaza-Forum, where I can chat with my clanspeople. Adieu! I will left this forum forever - it´s nothing for my sunny disposition! :D


Assuming you are not a nazi turk disguised under name of Zazas, you have taken a wrong path. You don't have any future to protect Zazays from Nazi Turks. Millions of Kurds in North Kurdistan can not reason with them, so how can you reason with them alone. Zazais have a future only if they unite with Kurds to defeat Nazi Turks to create liberty and democracy in North Kurdistan. After that you become free to promote Zazay culture and interest.
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: Johny Bravo » Mon May 19, 2008 12:06 pm

Hallo Johny Bravo,
you talk about my heart! It´s much happier than yours. You have given up your Zaza-Identity and it seems,

I didnt give my Zaza Identy up. I am a Zaza, but i am not proud of them. Why i should be proud of a thing which not is creation of me?? I was born as a Zaza thanks of an accident. and not because god wanted this. proudness to a people is the next step to rascism. you can only can be proud of your works! other proudness is stupid.

that you are full of angryness? You don´t believe to God but to Karl Marx! You should search after God and stop hating others. Everyday is war on another place on earth. This is not your mission to fall into sadness and increase hate in your heart.
Come on!

thank of slaves as you the wars get continue. thank the capitalism slave masters who give command for the wars, the world will be destroy. because of the capitalism finance system, what is chaous.

Karl Marx is totally wrong in his thought. Ask God, he will tell you the truth about your heart!
Yes, Diri is a kurd. That´s why he don´t know who Zazas are!

god can not save the world, the capitalists will lie you with that, that if you believe god, you get after the die a better life. but this is wrong.

You think you have to fight for your people? - Kam ke sari ré berbeno, cimané xo ra beno. Why don´t you take care of yourself? Only you
rself.

Yes we fight for our people if we are against the turkish imperialism, its our duty for our ancestors .

If YOU hate the turkish state then you also hate the turkish population. Or do you hate only their buildings, plants, nature, cars,.... ? I don´t believe.

1. i hate all rascists 2. if 90% of the turkish people support the rascism and the killing of a language, people etc. then i hate also this people. but i dont hate turkish people they support our existence.

For me everyone shall decide for himself to who he wants to belong. Maybe there are kurdisch people outside who decided to become a Zaza. Why not. People should decide alone.

kurdish people are better than turkish dogs (i mean with that the rascists). they didnt forbide us our language or culture.

Johny Bravo
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: Diri » Tue May 27, 2008 11:47 pm

Haha :lol:


I didn't see this thread before now...

I've been away for a while because of exams - and now I'm done with all of them...

Anyway - this "Proud-Zaza" seems like an absolute imposter and fake...


For all we know, he is a Turk who's only wish is to plant hatred in this forum... The truth is that I know a WHOLE lot more about Zazas than this so-called "Proud-Zaza" who doesn't seem so "proud" at all - but rather he seems like he's a good slave and servant of the official and unofficial state policies of Turkey...

Zazas who wish to be just Zaza have my support and should have the support of every Kurd. That should be given! We can't force people to be things they are not. And if somebody wants to be Zaza, then that is their choice and their ethnicity...

And you - "Proud-Zaza" - a person who doesn't even speak Zazakî is telling me I don't know who the Zazas are... :roll:

Right... You and I can talk after you've read half as much about the subject as I have... :wink:
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:37 am

Dear diri

here are some maps of language trees. As we can see kurmanci sorani leki (called kurdish on this maps) are closer to zazaki and Gorani than persian or any other language.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... anTree.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Irani ... e_v2.0.png

and also note the term used as Zaza was a denigration and means something like "bla bla" acording to paul horn. The majority of us call our own language kirmancki or kirdki both terms are equal to kurmanci and kurdi and mean just simply "Kurdish" I have never seen my mother or dad calling our language Zazaki thats a term used only by turks in former times. And their is also no organisation called Zaza-Natiolism it only exist here on the Internet i have never heared about them anywhere else. There are only to arts of kirmanckis(zaza´s) one of them feel like kurds (like me and the big majority) and the other feel like turks(assimilated very small minority)

even western ethnologs recognized this i quote

"The Zazaki language used to be classified as a dialect of Kurmanji, however it is now considered to be separate and not a Kurdish language (Paul, 1998), but rather belonging to the Zaza-Gorani group of northwest Iranian languages (ethnologue, 2000). <strong>Since the Zazaki-speakers analyzed here self-identify as Kurds (Donald Stilo, personal communication), we included them in the analyses of the groups speaking Kurdish languages.</strong>"

http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Kurds.pdf


the majority of us kirmancki speakers feel kurdish. You can compare us to gilakis and mazandaranis of Iran who are also not classified (linguisticly) as persian but still are a part of them. So why not we?

here some videoclips of zaza

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/IndoEuropeanTree.svg">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... anTree.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Irani ... e_v2.0.png

and also note the term used as Zaza was a denigration and means something like "bla bla" acording to paul horn. The majority of us call our own language kirmancki or kirdki both terms are equal to kurmanci and kurdi and mean just simply "Kurdish" I have never seen my mother or dad calling our language Zazaki thats a term used only by turks in former times. And their is also no organisation called Zaza-Natiolism it only exist here on the Internet i have never heared about them anywhere else. There are only to arts of kirmanckis(zaza´s) one of them feel like kurds (like me and the big majority) and the other feel like turks(assimilated very small minority)

even western ethnologs recognized this i quote

"The Zazaki language used to be classified as a dialect of Kurmanji, however it is now considered to be separate and not a Kurdish language (Paul, 1998), but rather belonging to the Zaza-Gorani group of northwest Iranian languages (ethnologue, 2000). <strong>Since the Zazaki-speakers analyzed here self-identify as Kurds (Donald Stilo, personal communication), we included them in the analyses of the groups speaking Kurdish languages.</strong>"

http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Kurds.pdf


the majority of us kirmancki speakers feel kurdish. You can compare us to gilakis and mazandaranis of Iran who are also not classified (linguisticly) as persian but still are a part of them. So why not we?

here some videoclips of zaza



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SQhbwcoCgc&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

there is no Zaza-Nationalism it only exists in youtube and on the Internet and if someone claim something else than he should prove it and show me at least such a big group of zaza which doesen´t feel like kurds but only as zaza.

Ma Kurda. Kurdistan welatê mao! Kirmancki ziwanê mao!

Kurdistano
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: KurdishAryanSoccer » Wed May 11, 2011 10:56 am

What the fuck . loool

zazaki sorani gorani kurmanci dialect of kurdish languages .

turkey try to divide kurds with "zaza "or "alevi" . and yo uguys beleib turkish stAte or tvs ..websites.. turkey pay wikiedia ...lol could be ,too..


here true source:
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: alan131210 » Wed May 11, 2011 1:15 pm

well its very clear that turks are yet saying we are giving you more rights but the same time there dirty work continues by trying to divide kurds with this zaza vs kurmanji vs sorani crap , dear turks you are only fooling yourself not 40 million kurds , you might have assimilated few 1000s but you cant assimilate 40 millions .

we kurds have DIFFERENT DIALECTS but this doesnt make us non-kurds
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: thearabchildren » Wed May 11, 2011 2:31 pm

For the record, my assessment is that Zazaki is one language, Soranî and Kurmancî are two dialects of one Kurdish language.

However, even if Zazaki, Soranî and Kurmancî are three different languages, it makes absolutely no difference to whether or not Zazas are Turks (they are not until they forget their own language and speak only Turkish), and therefore the Turks should basically stop worrying about Zazas, because they're still a minority in the Republic of İnönü, and they can't silence them all. Once I was ranting about Kurdish rights to a particularly backward old-guard Kemalist (votes CHP, speaks French, hates everyone who isn't exactly like her in every way, believes the AKP is the first bad government in Turkish history because she thinks it wants to snatch the vodka from her hands, but doesn't mind that her government tries to beat Kurdish from the tongues of Kurdish children, you know the type), and she said "Well we can't give the Kurds any linguistic rights, because then what about the Zazas? Did you know it's not Kurdish!" (she believes she knows more about Turkey than me just because I'm a foreigner, and yet she didn't even know the Laz language existed. If it was up to her, Turkey's only neighbour would be France.) To which I replied "Yes. You're right. Zaza is not Kurdish, but that has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the Kurds have rights. All it means is that you've got to treat the Zazas with the same respect you treat Turks also."

For their Kurdishness, they feel very Kurdish themselves. Perhaps we can view it something like being Scottish. There are Scottish people who speak Scots and Scottish people who speak Gaelic. They're not that close, but they have a lot of culture in common due to the region and their own self-perception and history, plus they both lack all the filthy French influence on English (it really is a disgusting language spoken by unwashed infidels, not sure whether I'm referring to English or French here). Sunni Kurds I meet generally view themselves as Kurdish. Alevi ones, however, are a whole other situation. They are fiercely resistant of the system in Turkey, even those who no longer speak Zaza. I'll put it this way: I hate Kılıçdaroğlu. I think he's a sell-out and a Kemalist and a supporter of the fascists and a puppet of the Americans and everything else. And just by being an Alevi Zaza, he scares the hell out of a lot of old-guard Kemalists. That's how far-left Alevi Zazas are. Their Kemalists scare regular Kemalists just by existing.

I am myself very fond of Alevi Zazas, they have always been friendly to me. Allow me to tell a story.

Once the wife and I were at an airport in the third worst city in Turkey (all three are in the West and they know what they've done). We were hungry and so we went to the airport Burger King, and the whole airport was basically empty, so naturally they only had one guy working the Burger King. He was preparing the food and manning the register. He was an Alevi Zaza, and while we were small-talking I asked him where he was from. He said "Tunceli" and I got very excited and of course asked "Are you Alevi?" and he smiled and nodded. My wife explained to him that, though I am Jewish, I feel a great affinity for Shi'as in general and Alevis in particular, because their culture is so sympathetic. He was very happy to hear that. Then he asked if she was Shi'a. She said no, she was Sunni, as she comes from Kars, but she is a Kurd. He then asked "Do you speak Kurdish?" and she said "I understand it but I respond in Turkish." to which he nodded knowingly and said "Because of the assimilation". She got visibly upset at that, and then I jumped in and said "Don't worry my friend, if I have any say, all our kids will speak Kurdish". He shook my hand and then gave us a bunch of food we didn't order for free. He also translated some Kurmancî phrases I knew at that point into Zazaki, and I must say it is a very beautiful tongue.

I need to get ahold of some Zaza books.

Anyway, most Zazas I meet remind me of him, very few remind me of any kind of Kemalist. Even the Sunnis I've met in Stenbol view themselves more or less as Kurds, probably because the filthy attitude Stenbol has to pretty much everyone who is not fantastically rich reminds them that they are a kind of "other".

Another short story. One time we went into a guy's shop in Stenbol and there was a huge South African flag on his wall. We asked him what that was about and he said "Well, I can't hang the Kurdish flag..." and then drifted off. I was pleased with that, and showed him how to change his facebook from Turkish into Kurdish (he was unaware). Then he invited me for whiskey, but we had other plans. These are the people who bravely persevere in the face of Kemalist tyranny, and when the revolution comes, they will teach Kurdish classes to the Turks, whether the Turks like it or not. Anyone who refuses to say they are proud to be a Kurd will be smacked on the wrist with a ruler. Nationalities other than Turks and Kurds (such as Arabs, Laz, Circassians, Zazas, Assyrians, Slavs, Gypsies, Georgians, Greeks and Armenians) will be exempt from these classes, unless they want to attend, of course. They will also all get their own classes.
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: thearabchildren » Wed May 11, 2011 6:38 pm

I have been corrected: Zazas speak the purest and most Kurdish Kurdish of all. It's all the other Kurds who have been corrupted. (Evidence was offered)
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: Kulka » Wed May 11, 2011 6:58 pm

alan131210 wrote:well its very clear that turks are yet saying we are giving you more rights but the same time there dirty work continues by trying to divide kurds with this zaza vs kurmanji vs sorani crap , dear turks you are only fooling yourself not 40 million kurds , you might have assimilated few 1000s but you cant assimilate 40 millions .

we kurds have DIFFERENT DIALECTS but this doesnt make us non-kurds


it makes our culture more rich - which is beutiful.

@thearabchildren - nice stories.
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: New Corduene » Thu May 12, 2011 8:51 am

The Arab Children? Strange! This guy's name contains the term (Arab), he is Jewish, his wife is Kurdish, he lives in Turkey (at least was there for some time), He knows a hell lot about Kurds and their spoken dialects. And for all we know, he likes (Burger King)! Globalism, eh!?
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: KurdishAryanSoccer » Thu May 12, 2011 3:03 pm

thearabchildren , i cna wirte only : yu are a joke.SORAN I,ZAZAKI,KURMANCI ,GORANI : KURDISTAN alll peole say zazaki is first kurdish dialect . look here too : http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-clu ... rop2=C0114 AND here http://www.kurdishacademy.org/?q=node/47 can someone ban this thearabchildren , he is like our other enemys :turks who try divide kurds with religon " alevi" or "zaza" . i have a lot of zazaki dialect speakers kurds and they all are pkk fans.Image
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: Kulka » Thu May 12, 2011 3:16 pm

kaka gyan - but he didnt write anything wrong - he wrote in positive - i think so
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Dimilí (Zazaki )dialects of Kurdish language

PostAuthor: KurdishAryanSoccer » Thu May 12, 2011 3:23 pm

Dimilí dialects of Kurdish language

To the far north of Kurdistan along the upper courses of the Euphrates, Kizilirmaq, and Murat rivers in Turkey, the Dimilí branch of Kurdish language (less accurately but more commonly known as Zâza) is spoken by about 4.5 million (data from late 80's) Dimilí Kurds, (See the map). The larger cities of Darsim (now Tunçeli), Chapakhchur (now Bingol), and Siverek, and a large proportion of the Kurds of Bitlis, are Dimilí-speaking. There are also smaller pockets of this language spoken in various corners of Anatolia from Adiysman to Malatya (Melatye) and Maras (Meres), in Southern Kurdistan (northern Iraq, where the speakers are known as the Shebeks) and North Esatern Kurdistan (northwest Iran, the tribes of Dumbuli and some of the Zerzas) as well. The language seems in late classical and early medieval times to have been more or less spoken in all the area now covered by Northern Kurdish Dilects group in contiguous Kurdistan. Its domain also stretched west into Pontus, Cappadocia, and Cilicia, before a sustained period of assimilation and deportations obliterated the Kurdish presence in the area in the Byzantine period. The Dimilí further retreated from its former eastern domains to its present limited one under pressure from the advancing Northern Kurdish Dilects group speaking pastoralist Kurds. This loss of ground, which started at the beginning of the 16th century, continues to this day. Image

Dimilí is closely related to Hewramí (Hawramani, Ewramani), a relationship indicative of a time when a single form of Pahlawâni was spoken throughout much of Kurdistan, when after the late classical period, Kurdistan was homogenized through massive internal migrations. At that time the domain of the Pahlawâni language was uninterrupted across Kurdistan. The main bodies of Dimilí- and Hewramí-speaking Kurds are now at the extreme opposite ends of Kurdistan.

Major dialects of Dimilí are Sívirikí, Korí, Hezzú (or Hezo), Motkí (or Motí), and Dumbulí. The dialect of Galishí now spoken in the highlands of Gilan on the Caspian Sea may be a distant offshoot of Dimilí as well, brought here by the migrating medieval Daylamites from western and northern Kurdistan.

Dimilí has served as the prime language of the sacred scriptures of the Alevis, but not the exclusive one. Despite this, not much written material survives to give an indication of the older forms of Dimilí and its evolution. The documents come from rather unexpected sources: the early medieval Islamic histories. Ibn Isfandiyar in his history of Tabaristan, for example, preserves passages in the language of the Daylamite settlers of this Caspian Sea district, which resembles modern Dimilí.
Sources

Dr. A. Hassanpour, Nationalism and Language in Kurdistan 1918 - 1985, Mellen Research University Press, USA, 1992
Prof. M. Izady, The Kurds: A Concise Handbook, Dep. of Near Easter Languages and Civilization Harvard University, USA, 1992

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

SORAN I,ZAZAKI,KURMANCI ,GORANI : KURDISTAN alll peole say zazaki is first kurdish dialect . look here too : http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-clu ... rop2=C0114 AND here http://www.kurdishacademy.org/?q=node/47
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: thearabchildren » Thu May 12, 2011 7:05 pm

New Corduene wrote:The Arab Children? Strange! This guy's name contains the term (Arab), he is Jewish, his wife is Kurdish, he lives in Turkey (at least was there for some time), He knows a hell lot about Kurds and their spoken dialects. And for all we know, he likes (Burger King)! Globalism, eh!?


أيوة، الأن أنا في تركيا

And your assessment of me is quite fair. I like it very much.

KurdishAryanSoccer, you clearly have misinterpreted what I said. This is a (frustratingly) common phenomenon. All the same, thank you for more resources on our Zaza brothers and sisters. Peace.
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Re: Zazaistan Flag

PostAuthor: thearabchildren » Thu May 12, 2011 7:09 pm

For the record, I am too drunk to be mad at anybody. You are all free to insult me and blame me for all your problems and accuse me of every kind of racism and fascism for which I have no sympathy, I don't care, I just got to practise my Arabic and Kurdish and get drunk with some Kurds. Enjoy judging me, I am happy.
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