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SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yezidis

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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Piling » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:33 pm

How much dowry is a wife worth?


It depends on her family, village, region (Duhoki girls are very expansives and the Yezidi girls of the 2 Arab villages in Sinjar are expansive also, more than Kurdish, don't ask me why), sometimes it depends on her beauty. I mean a girl is beautiful it depends on the step-mother (Kurdish women arrange marriage more than fathers) : she can calculate : ok, this girl is expansive BUT blond and with a white skin SO my grand-daugters will be MORE expansive when we have to be married them ; sort of capitalist speculation :-D
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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: burnsss » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:37 pm

Kak talsor i know what ravenden means but this girl is 11 years old. She cant possibly made the decision by her own. The man simply kidnapped her against her will
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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: talsor » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:02 pm

burnsss wrote:Kak talsor i know what ravenden means but this girl is 11 years old. She cant possibly made the decision by her own. The man simply kidnapped her against her will


As I mention heval I was NOT referring to this case .
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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: talsor » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:16 pm

Anthea wrote:Only Kurdish men who smoke :D

Most Kurdish ladies do NOT like their husbands to smoke. Sadly, several of the ladies have asked me to stop their husbands smoking and a lot of Kurdish men in England are ill due to smoking.

One poor lady told me the noise her husbands chest makes when he sleeps. She is always frightened he will not wake up.


Then I suggest your read your post again .
It is only natural that most women do not like their husband to smoke and most men do not like their wives to smoke . You are stereotyping though based on some personal experience .

here is the List of countries by cigarette consumption per
capita :D . Although Kurdistan is not included , but you can get an idea based on the countries mentioned .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... per_capita
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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Anthea » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:13 pm

talsor wrote:Then I suggest your read your post again .
It is only natural that most women do not like their husband to smoke and most men do not like their wives to smoke . You are stereotyping though based on some personal experience .

here is the List of countries by cigarette consumption per
capita :D . Although Kurdistan is not included , but you can get an idea based on the countries mentioned .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... per_capita

True perhaps I am stereotyping, but it is based mainly on what Kurdish ladies have said to me. Also, on the disproportionately large number of Kurdish men who have become seriously ill due excessive smoking, including my closest friend who nearly died at the age of 45 due to cigarettes X(
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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:44 pm

Piling wrote:
In some cultures kidnapping a girl (not as young as 11) is the way to take a wife.


Not only Yezidis, it was a Kurdish custom, but now KRG forbids it.

History :

Lovers from the same religion :

The old custom was that when 2 young persons loved each others, and one or both families refused, the boy could kidnap the girl (but only if she did agree, never without her consent). They fled and all the girl's brothers ran after them. If after 3 days, they could not catch them, they could not kill them anymore. If they caught them in this time of 3 days, they killed the boy and the girl.


And if the Girl was kidnapped from one family, the family gets as comprehension a Girl from the other family for marriage. This is called "Berdel"
I don't know if all Indo-Europeans did it but I know that it was very common among Scythians.

These traditions only show how pure (some might call it "archaic") the Kurdish culture, isolated by mountains, stayed.

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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:46 pm

Piling wrote:
How much dowry is a wife worth?


It depends on her family, village, region (Duhoki girls are very expansives and the Yezidi girls of the 2 Arab villages in Sinjar are expansive also, more than Kurdish, don't ask me why), sometimes it depends on her beauty. I mean a girl is beautiful it depends on the step-mother (Kurdish women arrange marriage more than fathers) : she can calculate : ok, this girl is expansive BUT blond and with a white skin SO my grand-daugters will be MORE expansive when we have to be married them ; sort of capitalist speculation :-D


Yezidi Girls from Arab villages? There are no Yezidi Arabs.

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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:50 pm

talsor wrote:I do not know why it is called kidnapping when there a mutual agreement between the girl and the boy . By the way in Kurdish it is called "Revanden " which roughly translate to "running away with " and not "kidnapping "

I'm certainly not referring to this particular case here ,but I think it is brave and admirable to break the barrier of culture /religion in order marry someone you love . most if not all so called kidnapping are preceded by multiple attempt by the man to convince the girls family to allow the marriage , but when all faile "Revanden " is the only option despite the consequences.

The Yezidi girl case it is typical paedophilia and there is little KRG can do considering that the guy is in Mosul which is under Central government control .


agreed, but the girl is/was obviously not in the age to know better for herself and a person in age of 11 is Very easily (and I mean really easily) to manipulate. This is why in most countries all important decisions are made by parents till the child becomes 18 years old.

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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Piling » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:21 am

Yezidi Girls from Arab villages? There are no Yezidi Arabs.



There are : before there were 2 Yezidi Arab tribes according to Thomas Bois (after all. Sheikh Adi and his tariqat were Arab Syrians), and now there are just 2 villages. In Lalish, once, I met one : i talk with a woman who did not understand me and the guy with me explained that she was an Arab. I forgot the name of these villages but it has been studied and visited by Eszter Spat and mentioned in her book, I can find it easily. It is precisely in her study that she reports the high wedding price of these Arab Yezidis.

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http://www.amazon.com/Yezidis-Ezster-Sp ... szter+spat
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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Kurdistano » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:43 am

Piling wrote:
Yezidi Girls from Arab villages? There are no Yezidi Arabs.



There are : before there were 2 Yezidi Arab tribes according to Thomas Bois (after all. Sheikh Adi and his tariqat were Arab Syrians), and now there are just 2 villages. In Lalish, once, I met one : i talk with a woman who did not understand me and the guy with me explained that she was an Arab. I forgot the name of these villages but it has been studied and visited by Eszter Spat and mentioned in her book, I can find it easily. It is precisely in her study that she reports the high wedding price of these Arab Yezidis.

Image

http://www.amazon.com/Yezidis-Ezster-Sp ... szter+spat



An Arab Yezidi is impossible since the native language and culture of Yezidis is Kurdish. If anything they are one of the few arabified Yezidis, but than they are not Yezidi anymore but Arab. And this is not the case. This is like you are telling me that an ethnic Kurd from Turkey who is not able to speak Kurdish but identifies as such is not a Kurd at all. So if they identify themselves as Yezidis (Since the Yezidi religion is exclusively connected to Kurds) than they can't be Arabs simple as that. And If there were some And it mifht be possible that the Yezidis have assimilated to Arab tribes, but than they are not Arabs anymore anyways. Also assimilation into different cultures, especially among Arabs is not rare. Who can assure me that Sheik Adi, who was a native of the Levant was not originally ethnic Arab himself but rather of assimilated Phoenician or other ancestry?


What I am trying to say there might be some linguistically arabified Yezidis and if they consider themselves as Arabs than they are not Yezidis at all. And if they consider themselves as Yezidis than they can't be Arabs. Arab and Yezidi in my opinion contradict themselves.

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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Feyli_kord » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:08 pm

Man retarded tribal bullshit. We should be over this by now.

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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Piling » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:12 pm

The Arab villages are Beshiqe and Behzani, they are 30 km far from Mosul, and are like 'twin villages'. The interesting point is that their Arabic is near to Lebanese Arabic, not an Iraqi Arabic, and Sheikh Adi was originated from Lebanon (that was called Syria at his time). These Arab Yezidi clamed to be arrived in Kurdistan since 12th century with Sheikh Adi, but of course, there are no proof of that except this Lebanese Arabic.

Another interesting point is that they are qewel (religious singers) and their ritual dresses are undoubtedly Arabic, though the religious songs are in Kurdish. And their place in religious celebration is important.

So there could have many explanations :

– There could have been assimilated by their Arab neighbors, but in that case, it is strange they speak Lebanese and not Iraqi, as other Mosuli.

– Sheikh Adi came from Lebanon not alone, he was the leader of 'Adawiya order, a sunni sufi tariqet, which had a branch in Cairo. His first companions should be ethnically mixed, and of courses his family or relatives were Arabs.

– At the time of its expansion, Yezidism was not an 'ethnic' religion, some Arabs could have been converted with Kurds.

– At last, these Arab Yezidis have their own explanation and I let you discover it in the text :smile: It is also explained why the price of their bride is so expansive when a Kurdish Yezidi ask one of their daughter.

It is an interesting fact for Yezidi studies, I type all the passage, but I recommend to read all the book, who is not too long and very interesting, written by a Jewish Hungarian scholar, who speak kurmanji and spent many months and even years among Yezidis in Kurdistan :

The villages of Beshiqe and Behzani, a mere thirty kilometers from Mosul, constitute a unique case deserving special attention. Although described as belonging to the Sheikhan area by most book dealing with Yezidis, the inhabitants of the two villages at the feet of Mount Meqlub, which isolates them from the rest of Sheikhan, see themselves and are seen by other Yezidis as a distinct entity. These twin villages, today separated only by an asphalt road in the middle of the settlement, are the villages of the Yezidi qewel, or religious singers, keepers of the ancient lore who must by the force or tradition make their dwelling in either of these two villages. Perhaps due to the presence of the qewels, the people of Beshiqe-Behzani are traditionally more devoted to religious duties and education than other settlements. The Yezidis of the twin villages serves as xizmetkar, servitors in the Sanctuary of Sheikh Adi in the sacred valley of Lalish; in other word, it is their duty to go several times a year, before and after major holidays, to maintain the holy precincts. The first Yezidi school to teach children the previously forbidden arts of reading and writing was founded in Beshiqe by Mayan Khatun, the Yezidi 'motehr queen', in the first half of the twentieth century. Today the only Yezidi 'Sunday school', the sole aim of which is to teach Yezidi children about their faith and help them to memorize some of the sacred texts, is in the same village. It was founded a few years ago, semi-clandestinely, in the face of the official ban of the Saddam government on anything 'smacking of Kurdishness'.

Interestingly enough, while the religious hymns and prayers entrusted to the memory of the qewels are all in Kurdish, the inhabitants of the two villages speak Arabic as a mother tongue – alone along the Yezidis. Nor is this the Arabic of Northern Iraq, or even in Iraq. According to the people of Beshiqe-Behzani, the Arabic they speak is closest to that of Lebanon (and they certainly show a predilection for watching Lebanese TV. They claim to have arrived from the Beka'a Valley in Lebanon in the twelth century with Sheikh Adi. Accordingly, they term themselves tazhi (meaning 'greyhounds', the only kind of dog that enjoy respect among Kurds) – a term that refers to their loyalty to their leader. (Scholars, on the other hand, say that the word is a corrupted form of tazî, Kurdish for 'naked' and simply means 'Arabs' in this context.)

This is not the only Kurdish word they use, however. Behzani Yezidi claim that their language contains ancient Kurdish words no longer in use among other Kurdish speakers. They explain by saying that originally they were Kurds who migrated to Lebanon and then returned centuries later with Sheikh Adi. This is an explanation that may perhaps lack any historical or linguistic foundation, but one that certainly adds an interesting detail to the much-debated question of Yezidi national identity.

Beshiqe-Behzani, with its tight-packed streets of stone houses, reminiscient of Mediterranean fishing villages, differs from other Yezidi communities not only in its language and architecture, but in many other ways as well. A slight tension can be detected between the rest of the Yezidis and the inhabitants of the twin villages, who tend to look down on other Yezidis as less educated and more conservative. he twin villages have always been reluctant to give their daughters to Yezidis from other regions, whom they accuse not only of being backward but also of not treating their women well enough. Even if a bride is granted, her family asks for a shockingly high bride price from the 'outsider', while it would be shameful to ask for a bride price from a potential groom from Beshiqe or Behzani


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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Feyli_kord » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:22 pm

I think it's time to introduce mandatory education in Kurdistan. The higher education, the less likely people will cling to traditional POVS that don't really help the kurdish cause. I'm tired of hearing of honor-killings and kidnappings. It's neither rational nor conducive to kurdish society. Besides it's the biggest rep flaw.

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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Anthea » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:57 pm

Feyli_kord wrote:I'm tired of hearing of honor-killings and kidnappings. It's neither rational nor conducive to kurdish society. Besides it's the biggest rep flaw.

This subject was a news item. Unfortunately, most media news items about Kurds are negative. We ALL need to try and find MORE positive information that we can share on here.

It is good to discuss the items posted on this site. Some of the discussions are very interesting and informative. We all have different points of view that is what makes this site so interesting :D
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Re: SK missing Yezidi Girl draws Intervention of World’s Yez

PostAuthor: Piling » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:27 am

Interesting…

Would the family really force her to an unwilling marriage ?

Is she 15 years old or 11 ? Many Kurdish families change the age of their children. It was more common for boys in the aim they go to army older than they officially are (under Saddam' era). Movie maker Hiner Saleem told in his book how he discovered one day that he was 14 and not 10.

But that the aim to make a girl younger ? I don't know.

if you don’t take me with you I will create big trouble for you. Then he was left with no choice but to take me,


This is a usual strategy from girls for forced marriage , I've already heard of that. So the kidnapper would be the girl and not the man ? :lol:

KALAKCHI, Kurdistan Region – An underage Yezidi girl, whom her family say was kidnapped by a 20-year-old Sunni Muslim, says she eloped and married the man of her own free will to escape an arranged marriage.

The disappearance of Simon Dawud, whom her family says is 11 years old but who herself claims she is 15, has caused a scandal in the Kurdistan region, fraying the small Yezidi community’s tense ties with the wider Sunni Muslim population. Her family says she was abducted by Hassan Nasrulla, a vendor, from the Goran tribe.

“I voluntarily escaped and decided to run away with Hassan Nasrulla. I told him, if you do not take me with you, then I will find someone else to go with,” the girl told Rudaw in a short interview.

“I got into Nasrulla’s car but he pushed me out. Then I told him, if you don’t take me with you I will create big trouble for you. Then he was left with no choice but to take me,” she said.

“I am 15 years old,” Dawud said, contradicting statements by her family, who say she is 11, and cannot legally marry until she is 16. Police have issued an arrest warrant for the pair.

Nasrulla, a resident of the town of Kalakchi and a married father of two, said he had met the girl during his visits to her village to sell goods.

“She used to buy goods from me every time I visited her village, Nasrulla said. “She was constantly saying, ‘you have to take me with you.’ I was telling her, ‘I am married and have two children,’ but she was insisting on escaping from her village with me,” he said.

“I pushed her out of my truck three times, but the fourth time I just gave up and took her with me,” he added.

Dawud said she had fled to escape a forced marriage, arranged by her family, to a Yezidi man from the town of Mahati.

“I have made my decision, and I will not return,” Dawud said, asking her family to leave her alone.

But her father maintains that his daughter’s words are not her own.

“What Simon tells the newspapers are not her words. She has been threatened and made to say those words,” he claimed, denying that the family ever wanted to force the girl into an arranged marriage.

In a traditional society where girls and young women, deemed to have besmirched the family honor, frequently are killed by their own close relatives, Simon’s father said he would not harm her if she returned.

In April 2007 Dua’a Khalil Aswad, a 17-year-old Yezidi girl, was stoned to death, in what is believed to have been an “honor killing” by her family. The girl apparently was involved in an affair with a Sunni man whom she wanted to marry.

Bashar Muhseer Agha, the leader of the Goran tribe, said the tribe is ready to do whatever the law decides, except “turning the girl back to her family.”

“If I get hold of Dawud and Nasrulla, I will turn them over to the authorities and the law enforcement agencies, but by no means will we agree to hand her back to her parents, because there is no guarantee of her safety,” he said.

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