Israel and Turkey alliecne Against Our Dear Kurdistan

[dyaoko]

am so sorry to hear about that...

http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/tex ... /010620051

I think i dont like israel anymore... (I used to )
they can go to hell too , untill they give us an applogize for calling us "Terrorist" and giving fulll support to the "ant-jewish turks" against "jew lover kurds"

I am such a person that I clap for seombody when he/she does something good and swear at him/her when he dose something bad...and there is no constant angel , and constant evil for me. -(well thare are some exceptions in the case of Constaant Evils)

I think it is the time to sweare at Israel ...what do you think ?

Israel should bettter know how Turks hate Jews from the bottom of their dirty asses..
Israel should bettter know hitlers's books and anti-semitc books are top seller in Turkey...
Israel should better now Turkey will never bee a good alley for them.
Israel should better know the cost of appologizing Kurds for making alliecne against them with their Enemies inst that much cheap.

but Israelis should better know "we are not swearing at them because we want to delete israel on the map or because they are Jewish not because we want to take Israel back to Muslem world.."

just because they are making allience aganist our dear kurdistan.
if they appologize and break that dirty allience.. we can be freind again.

Israel should know , kurds are the only nation in middle east who dont hate them for their rellligion and for their race.
Israel should better know that we kurds been gassed and been killled because in the name of "killing Israel's servent"....

Israel you are breaking our hearts, "********"

[Emmunah]

Well....that comes from a synopsis story about Israeli-Turkish relations. We know that Israel has relationship with the Turks, but this is one paper, and I know for a fact I could find some papers written by Kurds 1)condemning the PKK 2) Arguing to make better relations with Turkey, and to have the Kurds in Turkey improve their image to Turks. What this writer is saying, is that there is not going to be any deterioration in relations between Turkey and Israel...and who is Israel to pressure Turkey? Shouldn't that be the job of people with more power...like the US and Europe?

Okay, so on the same website I did a search for Kurds and I found this:
http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/text.pl?source=4/b/iv/1/120420051
http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/text.pl?source=4/b/iii/archives/241120041
http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/text.pl?source=4/b/viii/archives/080920042
http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/text.pl?source=4/b/viii/archives/300320042
http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/text.pl?source=4/b/viii/archives/250720036
http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/text.pl?source=4/b/iii/archives/181120041
http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/text.pl?source=3/e/050420051
http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/printer.pl?source=4/b/iv/1/archives/141020021&lang=

The pages went on and on and on....none of them used the word Kurd and terrorist in them.

I don't know who this guy Gerald A. Honigman is, but maybe we will write him because he seems to be a friend of Kurds.

But, Medya, look to their "who we are" page and see that this is an online news and writer's forum. The writers live all over the world.
http://www.infoisrael.net/features.html

There is no "ONE" united opinion in an open press, and people can write articles in favor, or in opposition, of Kurds or Canadians or Irish or anyone...and they are not supposed to mean this is the voice of all of Israel or the US or any nation...these are just what appears in a free press, and sometimes I want to shoot my television when I see some of the people say things I hate to hear, but that's what free speech is...expression of an opinion. Win over the opinions of a large enough group of a nation, and that opinion will win, but there will always be people who write against the idea too....they will just be a minority opinion.

[Emmunah]

This was published in the most widely read newspaper in Israel:
Let the Kurds be

The Jerusalem Post (Editorial)

As the Iraqi saga meanders even further into the unknown, one thing still seems solid there: Kurdish reliability.

For the past 13 years, the non-Arab minority that constitutes roughly a third of Iraq has effectively lived as an American protectorate, and remarkably so. As if to confound all the many prophets of doom among its many hostile neighbors, the burgeoning Kurdistan has displayed a remarkable measure of political stability and economic vitality, particularly considering the volatile neighborhood of which it is a part.

As Erik Schechter writes in this issue, the overall number of Kurds living today in Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria is estimated at 30-35 million, roughly the number of Canadians in North America. The lands the Kurds populate, while politically disjointed, are geographically contiguous. Moreover, this ancient nation has its own language and customs, something numerous other independent nations worldwide .

cannot boast.

Tragically, though it deserves an independent state of its own by any yardstick, the Kurdish nation fell prey to superpower cynicism and regional paranoia. The superpowers neglected to grant the Kurds a state in the aftermath of World War I, when they carved out much less viable states in the Middle East, such as Lebanon.

Meanwhile, all four countries which played host to the Kurds decided each in its turn to perceive the national aspirations of the Kurds as a strategic threat. The rationale, for each of them, is that if the Kurds get even one small state, and only in one of the four states where they currently live, the Kurds elsewhere will immediately rebel in an effort to join the smaller Kurdistan and together build a Greater Kurdistan.

By this logic, Romania should oppose Hungary’s independence, Italy should oppose Austria’s and France should fear Switzerland’s. That is of course absurd, and so is the opposition to the Kurds’ independence. Moreover, Syria, Iran, Turkey and Iraq all emphatically supported Palestinian statehood. If only for the sake of consistency they should all concede that what they demand that Israel grant the Palestinians - who do not speak a language of their own and whose numbers are far smaller, by any count, than the Kurds’ - they must themselves grant the Kurds.

Yet the Kurds have a cause which is not only a moral one.

In a Middle East famous for its inherent instability, the Kurdish zone in northern Iraq has loomed large as a beacon of stability. Thirteen years of relative quiet and growth are nothing to scoff at in this part of the world, and this is even before Kurdish Iraq has been fully linked to its mineral riches. Formally emancipating it can further enhance this process, and help establish an island of stability whose impact can inspire the rest of former Iraq, and much of the broader Middle East.

If anyone needed proof of the distorted and unworkable way in which modern Iraq was built, the past year’s events supplied it amply. The Suni minority’s frequent refusal to join hands with their Shi’ite neighbors speaks volumes of the ethnic outlook that makes that country tick. By that logic, too, the Kurds deserve a state.

As the handover of civilian power in Iraq approaches, the world powers may want to make a point of imposing an independent Kurdistan on its neighbors, if not for the sake of justice, then at least for the sake of stability.

[dyaoko]

I was convinced that , that site isnt Israel's opinion but we cant say it isnt israel's opinion for sure , because israel calls northern kurds terrorist and during the last visit with Rajab, Sharon Promised to teach rajab modern ways to fight with terrorsits...who are the terrorists?
kurds or those who read hitlers book ?

and also they made a Red Phone line between Israel and Turkey Presidentals , so they use it in Emeregency Terrorist atttacks....!!!
israle has this Read Phone line with USA too.
now Turkey is added to USA. so they attack to kurds immediately if they wanted to move .

and also , we must consider IF israel is doing some favor to kurds -(that I dobt she is)- it is just for southern kurds and you know southern kurds are 1/8 of the kurds population . and we know souther kurds are doing enough favor to israelis to recive that help.

but northern kurds are 1/2 of kurds population. and we know IF israel is doing bad things to northern kurds --then Israel is doing bad things to 1/2 of the kurds.

then we must be rather sad than happy with Israel.

I look at kurds like a united "body".

it is like that israel kisses my eye but cuts my two hands at the same time. so I rather shout at israel. until he stops it.
not say "well she is kissng my eye so let her cut my hands"

[dyaoko]

and also I am not saying that israel attack to turkey and kill all of them.
but I say , that Red Phone Line .to attack to terrorists if turkey needed , is a very bad crime against 1/2 of Kurds .

Israel could just keep turks as a friend...not go more near.
welll this is the israel that will loose ... because soon or later turks will leave them. turks hate jews by the bottom of their hearts... just go and chat by a turk Randomly and see ....

israel will have to give many thing to northenr kurds...so they accept her appologize.... we wont forget that Red Phone line

[Emmunah]

Terrorism is to be denouced because it has never helped a cause. Therefore, one can oppose terrorism AND still support Kurds who are not terrorists. Do not assume Kurds are what Israel has in mind. Turkey has a problem with more than Kurds, they have Al Queda type attacks too. There was a horrible bombing a couple years ago, and many other plots of terror uncovered since then against Turkey, but not from Kurds and also there is a big Jewish community in Istanbul.

Did you know that after all the terror attacks in Saudi Arabia last year that Saudi called Israel, and got their help to secure their Western Worker areas? Weird isn't it? But here is the article about the terrorism I think Israel is concerned about:

Turkey: Bombings may be work of foreign terrorists
At least 20 killed, more than 300 hurt in coordinated attacks
Saturday, November 15, 2003 Posted: 5:46 PM EST (2246 GMT)

Two cars laden with explosives simultaneously blew up near two Istanbul synagogues, killing at least 20 people. CNN's Andrew Finkel reports.


ISTANBUL, Turkey (CNN) -- Turkey's foreign minister says blasts close to two Istanbul synagogues that killed at least 20 people and wounded more than 300 others appear to be a coordinated terror attack with "international links."

Authorities speculate the attacks -- which rocked the synagogues as Jewish worshippers prayed at weekly Sabbath services -- were carried out by terrorists from outside the country, possibly al Qaeda.

Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said "it looks as if this is a terror attack which has international links." Turkish Interior Minister Abdulkadir Aksu told reporters that "no organization has claimed responsibility yet" and investigators are "considering every possibility. Any organization could be behind this."

Earlier, Turkish media reported a claim of responsibility for the blasts from a radical Turkish Islamist group, the Islamic Great Eastern Raiders Front.

Police investigators said the bombs were similar -- both contained potassium chloride and sodium nitrate -- and both were packed into station wagons that were parked near the synagogues.

Officials credited tight security around the buildings for keeping the bombers from inflicting more damage inside the synagogues. Many of the casualties were passers-by.

Outside one of the synagogues, a surveillance camera taped a man parking a station wagon in the street. Moments later, the vehicle exploded.

One bomb detonated about a meter from the Neve Shalom synagogue in the Kuledibi district, police told CNN Turk.

The heavily guarded synagogue had security cameras in and around the place of worship, where a bar mitzvah ceremony was being held. Many of the few hundred people inside were evacuated through a backdoor entrance. Yosef Halefa, son of Turkey's chief rabbi, was wounded in the attack.

Security at Neve Shalom has been tight since it was the target of a deadly attack in 1986, blamed on a Palestinian militant group. And, because of terror fears, synagogues throughout Europe have been fortified over the years.

Shattered glass littered the streets where many small shops are located, and the facades of buildings have been destroyed.


More than 300 people were wounded in the bombings outside two synagogues.
The second car bomb detonated near Istanbul's Beth Israel Synagogue, about three miles away in the Sisli district, and was an equally devastating blast. The bombing was at the rear of the synagogue, and caused structural damage and started fires, which were swiftly extinguished.

The Jewish community numbers about 25,000 in the predominantly Muslim country of 68 million. Avi Alkas, Istanbul's Jewish community leader, called the blasts "a severe blow to our community," which lost six people, including an 8-year-old girl and her 85-year-old grandmother praying in one of the synagogues.

There is no tradition of anti-Semitism in Turkey, where there has been a vibrant Jewish community for centuries.

"We were not expecting such a blow because here in Turkey, in Istanbul, in this beautiful city, we have always proved Islam and Judaism can live harmoniously in a peaceful manner, in a co-existence. I do presume that these are coming from outside, not within the country," Alkas said.

He said some of these funerals will be taking place in the targeted synagogues.

World leaders condemn bombings
Soon after the attacks, President Bush called Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to express his condolences, a senior administration official said. The president also expressed the best wishes of the United States for rapid recovery for the wounded, and both leaders reiterated their commitment to continuing to work together on the war on terrorism, the official said.

Bush condemned the attacks "in the strongest possible terms" in a city "where Turkey's diverse religious communities of Muslim, Jewish and Christian believers have flourished together for centuries.

"The focus of these attacks on Turkey's Jewish community, in Istanbul's synagogues where men, women and children gathered to worship God, remind us that our enemy in the war against terror is without conscience or faith," Bush said in a statement.

Secretary of State Colin Powell called Gul to extend condolences. There is no information yet on whether any Americans were hurt or killed in the blasts.

Erdogan, on a visit to Cyprus, condemned the attack, and Israel's ambassador to Turkey was en route to the scene from Ankara.

Israel denounced the blasts, calling them "criminal terror attacks" and saying "terror is terror whether it targets Jews or non-Jews." Israeli officials said they had heard of no specific threats against Turkey's Jewish community.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's office said it "has absolute faith and confidence that the security and law authorities know how to catch those responsible."

Turkey and Israel have ties dating back to 1948, when Turkey became the first Muslim country to recognize the Jewish state. They continue to maintain close trade and military links. Turkey has been a popular vacation destination for Israelis.

"This is really a time to say to the Turkish people that the people of Israel are with them at this very difficult hour," Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Jonathan Peled said.

Both Israel and the United States offered to assist Turkey in any way. Other nations, include France, Britain and Greece, decried the Istanbul bombings.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/ ... explosion/

[dyaoko]

emmunah, has anybody ever told you, you are never in a loss for words?

[dyaoko]

i think you are gonna say PKK is terrorist...well

PKK had to use violence. in a country that they couldnt even speak their language...how could they have a peacefull party?
in fac they defended themself and I never condom PKKs using force.

terrorist means someobdy who uses Terror and force for his ideology.

let me ask you a question , Israel killed Hamas leader . ...is isreael terrorist?
America attacked to iraq ...by Force and Terror..is american terroist?

if you want my idea yea ....but by this concept most of the ppl of the wolrd are terrorst.
so pkk is terrorst in that way. the way that G.W.Bush is terrorist. PKK use Gun to make freedom. -not to make Islamic State-

and also remember, in every country the Kurds try to be the oppistion ideology of the governement. in Iran governemnmt is Shia.

the Ansar Islam is originally iranian kurds....who are so sunny Kurds.
because iran government is shia/...they have become extremist sunniys against shias.

in turkey the opposition was marxist...so Kurds felt like to join to a Left Party.

so that doesnt mean PKK is terrorist...and PKK never helpt hammas...-why pkk should help hamas agaisnt israel ? whats the use of that-

[Emmunah]

Of course, why do you think I told you I would hunt down those Turks that cursed at you on your blog and "Talk them to death"

This is also why my fingers hurt

But also, I fight just as hard for Kurds with words, and would do so with more than words if I thought that would work....but it hasn't for all these years so now I will fight with words until there is liberation. One step at a time...we will build a Kurdistan that cannot be denied. If it takes away my ability to use my fingers, then I will get a voice over internet card and call everyone and talk them into it!

[kassem]

w

[Emmunah]

*Some* of the PKK *actions* could probably be classified as "terrorist" in action. Most PKK do not support this, do not want any part of terrorists.

What I meant is that some Northern Kurds, would say that they wished to work toward better human rights for Kurds inside Turkey, rather than to fight a war with them. I did not say "improve our image to Turks", what I said was I could find many Northern Kurds who would argue that in an article, even if they had nothing to fear from Turkey. My point was that one article does not make a national opinion.

I find what the Turks do sick! Period! However, I don't think ALL Turks would support those things at all.

If Israel has this relationship with Turkey, then you must also say so does the whole rest of the world. Since you cannot fight the whole world, you have to find a strategy that will get most of what we want.

It is not true that you must support all Kurds, because I would not support the Josh, and neither would you, as you have said so before. I would not support the Kurds who blow themselves up in Southern Kurdistan, nor the Kurds that blew up hair salons and girl's schools.

Israel had a couple of terrorist actions in the early days too...they rejected them. They had some crazy nutcase in the parliament that argued mass deportation of Palestinians and they threw him out of parliament and outlawed his political party because they considered what he said to be a war crime.

Here is my definition of terrorism:
The intentional plotting and killing of civilian targets AND when a bunch of civilians are killed it is accepted, and no one is punished in any way for doing that, but instead the deaths are celebrated.

This is not the definition of terrorism for the US or the UN but it is mine. I know that civilians die in any war, or resistance...but if you don't try to minimize the civilian causualties that's wrong. If something bad happens, and a group of women and children who are not fighters are killed and you do not shame the person that did it, or punish them, than that is an act of terror.

When someone Kurdish uses a car bomb to blow up a bunch of people standing in a crowd, THAT is terrorism, and it's clear.

I agree with you that one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, and it's very difficult in some cases to figure out who is who.

In my heart, I truly believe that the only way that the Northern Kurds are going to be liberated, is if Southern Kurds build a very important place that the world cannot ignore. Then, the Western and Eastern Kurds can be next...but I do not know if anyone will ever be able to take any land from "Turkey". I hate it. I don't agree with it. Yet, if it ever happens it will not be through fighting....it will be a step by step, one Kurdish area at a time process that eventually leads to a referendum in Northern Kurdistan and THEY will vote and maybe or maybe not the vote will be for independence. Many Northern Kurds want to be in Turkey because they want to be in the EU, so I cannot say with any certainty that they would vote yes on that referendum. It will depend on what kind of Southern Kurdistan they see. If they see Southern Kurdistan as a great place to live, a place to go to college, get a job and have a good life, then they will choose to vote yes to secede from Turkey. What would happen is that if Southern Kurdistan got to be such a great place, the Turks, in an effort to keep their territory would drastically improve their relations with Kurds in order to keep them.

No one stopped having relations with England when they were involved in that awful Northern Ireland mess....they just pressured England to treat them better. Everytime the IRA bombed someplace they lost more support, and were called terrorists. Later, when they decided to make peace and not be terrorists, they got support.

No one will cut off relations with China over Tibet and Taiwan, instead they walk a tightrope to have relations with both places.

I am trying to study what makes some places get a country, and other people do not. It's very difficult to make it happen, and in almost every single case I can find, there was a lot of luck, and also the support of a superpower or a collection of European countries. In almost every case, the people that wanted their own country had to compromise and did not get everything they wanted....or at least not all at once.

In any case, the kind of terrorism Israel is interested in, is most likely Al Queda and not Kurds trying to win their rights.

[kassem]

w

[Emmunah]

The main point I am trying to make is that the article in question does not mean that the Israelis are against Kurds, nor does it even mean that that online journal is against Kurds....because of the links I provided, you can see that. If Israel has a hotline to Turkey about terrorism, the most likely reason is to fight REAL terrorism...and there is no reason to suppose anything else.

Israel is not "breaking Kurds hearts" by having a good relationship with Turkey. Because that would have required believing ahead of time that Israel did not have good relations with Turkey and having Israel betray your trust. We already knew what Israel's official position is on Turkey and also, we know what Israel's position is on the PKK. If we knew this, then how could it have been the surprise that hurt us? Is there a country that you know of that has a different position? I do not know of one. I don't know of any country that has officially taken the PKK's position over the Turks position. Do you know of one?

There are just too many Jews that are fighting for Kurds both in Israel and outside of Israel to condemn them....when in reality....they are the people with the most sympathy to the cause, and it is counter-productive to say they are not on Kurds side, and little by little this will be increased. The same is true in the US and in Europe. If a nation comes out and says "We are against the Kurds", then that is meaningful, but it has to be very clear before we jump to conclusions.

[Emmunah]

Let's ask ourselves "what can we DO next" instead of "who can we blame next". Let's write to the people that support us and praise them, instead of writing to those who did not support us and yelling about it. Let's find those who do not know why they should support Kurds, and show them why, rather than ask ourselves why they are not. I am convinced this would be more productive.

[dyaoko]

However, I don't think ALL Turks would support those things at all.

you are wrong . please put some of your time to chat with turks. if you found a normal turk , I will accept what you say , all of the turks are like neo nazis ,
they love their ata-goo .

If Israel has this relationship with Turkey, then you must also say so does the whole rest of the world. Since you cannot fight the whole world, you have to find a strategy that will get most of what we want.

Emmunah, we are not gonna fight with them , we are some Kurdisatn Blogges union we dont have any weapon except our Words.
if they aree doing bad things , we as Kurdistan Bloggers have the "duty" to answer to ou enemies and give the message of our peopel to them.
our message is clear "stop alliecne with turks against us"
well they can hear our message or they can ignore it! we wont fight with them.

It is not true that you must support all Kurds, because I would not support the Jash

well I am with you about this , I wont support any kurd who is Jash -Spy- and also those kurds who "may" have attacked to civil ppl .
but i dont belive PKK has done such a thing, it may be just angrey PPL , who their daughter been rapied been killed ...they simply took revengen.
pkk itself condems those attacks.

-well compared to simmilar parts of the world , the terrorsts attack that you say , is really really ZERO 0.000-

but I do not know if anyone will ever be able to take any land from "Turkey".

I didnt like this sentence at all ...what is the meaning of that ?
who is gonna stop us ? could saddam stop us ? haa? who ? who is gonan stop us ?tell me ...
we will fight untill we get the chance to get our right.
as southern kurds fighted untill they got a chance and oppotunity , by Saddam-Bush Problem...

who knows may be your loving Turks , get in fight with another

if anyone will ever be able to take any land from "Turkey"
is a bad sentence by you,....there is a big potential to make a Armenina-Greece-Kurdish and Even Arabic and Islamic Allience against Turks....

I do not know of one. I don't know of any country that has officially taken the PKK's position over the Turks position. Do you know of one?

well did any country took Kurd's postion while they were gassed?
the US department didnt even "condemned" it , because Kurds in halabja helpt iranian soldiers and america didnt like it......

whateve...israel, is jsut bettter stop giving support to turks to capture kurds , there is no need to losee its dear friend.

i think Kurds, should take full advantage of israel anyaway.

in one hand we must now , israel is not our friend at all.
and in the the other hand we must udnrestand and we must be smart to get israel's support against Arabs ... but we should never count on them to get any support against Tukrs and Persians.
if you listen to radio israel in perisan you will find out how they love persians and call kurdish langauge a dailect of Persian.

we must always worry and try to Defend against Israel's attack to kurds in eastern and northern kurdistan.
if we be smart we can take advantage of these israelis to librarte western kurdistan. (syrian kurdistan) as long as syria is their enemy and they are arab.