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Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

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Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

PostAuthor: Piling » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:46 pm

probably another occasion for Talso to call me 'feminist' :lol:

But in an ethnographic perspective, it would be possible : in many traditional societies, arts, crafts, poems, songs were from women. Let mention the Kurdish carpets and clothes, love poems from women. In Northern Africa, (Tassili) women play 'imzad (a string instrument) etc.

So why not ?


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... -cave-art/


Virginia Hughes
for National Geographic
Published October 8, 2013

Women made most of the oldest-known cave art paintings, suggests a new analysis of ancient handprints. Most scholars had assumed these ancient artists were predominantly men, so the finding overturns decades of archaeological dogma.


Archaeologist Dean Snow of Pennsylvania State University analyzed hand stencils found in eight cave sites in France and Spain. By comparing the relative lengths of certain fingers, Snow determined that three-quarters of the handprints were female.

"There has been a male bias in the literature for a long time," said Snow, whose research was supported by the National Geographic Society's Committee for Research and Exploration. "People have made a lot of unwarranted assumptions about who made these things, and why."


Archaeologists have found hundreds of hand stencils on cave walls across the world. Because many of these early paintings also showcase game animals—bison, reindeer, horses, woolly mammoths—many researchers have proposed that they were made by male hunters, perhaps to chronicle their kills or as some kind of "hunting magic" to improve success of an upcoming hunt. The new study suggests otherwise.

"In most hunter-gatherer societies, it's men that do the killing. But it's often the women who haul the meat back to camp, and women are as concerned with the productivity of the hunt as the men are," Snow said. "It wasn't just a bunch of guys out there chasing bison around."


Experts expressed a wide range of opinions about how to interpret Snow's new data, attesting to the many mysteries still surrounding this early art.


"Hand stencils are a truly ironic category of cave art because they appear to be such a clear and obvious connection between us and the people of the Paleolithic," said archaeologist Paul Pettitt of Durham University in England. "We think we understand them, yet the more you dig into them you realize how superficial our understanding is."


Sex Differences


Snow's study began more than a decade ago when he came across the work of John Manning, a British biologist who had found that men and women differ in the relative lengths of their fingers: Women tend to have ring and index fingers of about the same length, whereas men's ring fingers tend to be longer than their index fingers.

One day after reading about Manning's studies, Snow pulled a 40-year-old book about cave paintings off his bookshelf. The inside front cover of the book showed a colorful hand stencil from the famous Pech Merle cave in southern France. "I looked at that thing and I thought, man, if Manning knows what he's talking about, then this is almost certainly a female hand," Snow recalled.


Hand stencils and handprints have been found in caves in Argentina, Africa, Borneo, and Australia. But the most famous examples are from the 12,000- to 40,000-year-old cave paintings in southern France and northern Spain. (See "Pictures: Hand Stencils Through Time.")


For the new study, out this week in the journal American Antiquity, Snow examined hundreds of stencils in European caves, but most were too faint or smudged to use in the analysis. The study includes measurements from 32 stencils, including 16 from the cave of El Castillo in Spain, 6 from the caves of Gargas in France, and 5 from Pech Merle.

Snow ran the numbers through an algorithm that he had created based on a reference set of hands from people of European descent who lived near his university. Using several measurements—such as the length of the fingers, the length of the hand, the ratio of ring to index finger, and the ratio of index finger to little finger—the algorithm could predict whether a given handprint was male or female. Because there is a lot of overlap between men and women, however, the algorithm wasn't especially precise: It predicted the sex of Snow's modern sample with about 60 percent accuracy.


Luckily for Snow, that wasn't a problem for the analysis of the prehistoric handprints. As it turned out—much to his surprise—the hands in the caves were much more sexually dimorphic than modern hands, meaning that there was little overlap in the various hand measurements.


"They fall at the extreme ends, and even beyond the extreme ends," Snow said. "Twenty thousand years ago, men were men and women were women."


Woman, Boy, Shaman?

Snow's analysis determined that 24 of the 32 hands—75 percent—were female. (See "Pictures: Prehistoric European Cave Artists Were Female.")


Some experts are skeptical. Several years ago, evolutionary biologist R. Dale Guthrie performed a similar analysis of Paleolithic handprints. His work—based mostly on differences in the width of the palm and the thumb—found that the vast majority of handprints came from adolescent boys.


For adults, caves would have been dangerous and uninteresting, but young boys would have explored them for adventure, said Guthrie, an emeritus professor at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. "They drew what was on their mind, which is mainly two things: naked women and large, frightening mammals."


Other researchers are more convinced by the new data.

"I think the article is a landmark contribution," said archaeologist Dave Whitley of ASM Affiliates, an archaeological consulting firm in Tehachapi, California. Despite these handprints being discussed for half a decade, "this is the first time anyone's synthesized a good body of evidence."


Whitley rejects Guthrie's idea that this art was made for purely practical reasons related to hunting. His view is that most of the art was made by shamans who went into trances to try to connect with the spirit world. "If you go into one of these caves alone, you start to suffer from sensory deprivation very, very quickly, in 5 to 10 minutes," Whitley said. "It can spin you into an altered state of consciousness."

The new study doesn't discount the shaman theory, Whitley added, because in some hunter-gatherer societies shamans are female or even transgendered.


The new work raises many more questions than it answers. Why would women be the primary artists? Were they creating only the handprints, or the rest of the art as well? Would the hand analysis hold up if the artists weren't human, but Neanderthal?


The question Snow gets most often, though, is why these ancient artists, whoever they were, left handprints at all.


"I have no idea, but a pretty good hypothesis is that this is somebody saying, 'This is mine, I did this,'" he said.
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Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

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Re: Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

PostAuthor: talsor » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:40 pm

Piling wrote:probably another occasion for Talso to call me 'feminist' :lol:

But in an ethnographic perspective, it would be possible : in many traditional societies, arts, crafts, poems, songs were from women. Let mention the Kurdish carpets and clothes, love poems from women. In Northern Africa, (Tassili) women play 'imzad (a string instrument) etc.
So why not ?


lol , I agree with you on that one . Women are most certainly more artistic than men . Art as you know comes in different forms and if you compare both gender I believe women have the upper hand .
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Re: Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

PostAuthor: Anthea » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:39 pm

Piling I have to agree - you and I are both writers and probably have other artistic traits - and in a past life we would have both been shamans :ymdevil:
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Re: Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

PostAuthor: Shirko » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:53 pm

I agree, seems obvious that woman would of had much more time to paint in the caves and decorate, while the men were out hunting and fighting.
Last edited by Shirko on Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

PostAuthor: talsor » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:30 pm

Anthea wrote:Piling I have to agree - you and I are both writers and probably have other artistic traits - and in a past life we would have both been shamans :ymdevil:


You have anything published Anthea ?
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Re: Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

PostAuthor: Piling » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:44 pm

Artistic abilities are a malediction which hits both genders, don't worry. But according to different societies and cultured, they are more tolerated for one or another gender : when men have to fight and hunt, then even a Neolithic Picasso has to forget his own artistic genius. In Prehistoric times men were perhaps too busy with hunt and do not have time for painting in deep caverns.

At the contrary, a few female painters and sculptors have succeed during European history of arts because the main role for a woman was to marry and then to give birth to 15 children, to lost 13 among them and then to die at 25 when the 14th tried to born.

There is no thing as 'male artistic ability' vs female artistic talent : If you are an artist, or a writer, you are definitively alone against all the world, whatever your cunt or your dick.
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Re: Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

PostAuthor: Anthea » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:31 pm

talsor wrote:
Anthea wrote:Piling I have to agree - you and I are both writers and probably have other artistic traits - and in a past life we would have both been shamans :ymdevil:


You have anything published Anthea ?

Some of my songs have been recorded - a few of my poems have been in magazines - and I paint badly :D

I have also had small publications of training manuals - nearly forgot them ;)
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Re: Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

PostAuthor: talsor » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:55 am

Anthea wrote:
talsor wrote:
Anthea wrote:Piling I have to agree - you and I are both writers and probably have other artistic traits - and in a past life we would have both been shamans :ymdevil:


You have anything published Anthea ?

Some of my songs have been recorded - a few of my poems have been in magazines - and I paint badly :D

I have also had small publications of training manuals - nearly forgot them ;)


Any link to the songs ? I hope they are not depicting men as monsters :-D
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Re: Were the First Artists Mostly Women?

PostAuthor: Anthea » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:28 am

talsor wrote:Any link to the songs ? I hope they are not depicting men as monsters :-D

No links that I could find - but I stopped writing songs years ago because people steal them X(

But as a teacher I have written all my own training materials some of which were published - and I have written a couple of as yet unpublished plays :D

I prefer to write poems - this is one I wrote earlier this year :ymhug:

Remember a brave Kurdish freedom fighter

I have a web site I once did share
though you won't find it anywhere
I keep it up to see his name
but he won't use that name again

No more to see my sweet dear friend
sadly I know his life did end
where he lies I will not know
there is no stone laid there to show

He was a proud Kurd through and through
descendant of a Kurd so true
who was a man of well know fame
but I will not reveal his name

My friend he travelled far and wide
to spread the joy of Kurdish pride
visiting troops in many lands
with oft' a gun held in his hands

He fought for freedom and for truth
for the liberty of the Kurdish youth
that Kurdish children would be free
he fought and died for victory

But victory was not to be had
now Kurdish life is very sad
children of Kurds will not be free
a land of their own they will not see

Thousands of Kurds gave up their lives
leaving behind friends, relations and wives
hard they lived and hard they fought
but sadly they all died for nought

Sometimes I read our site again
read of his sadness and of his pain
thoughts of a man so young and brave
never to forget the life that he gave :((

I used to write poems and send them to MPs ;)

I am rather proud of this one:

I Will Rise Again

Destroy me now yet will I rise again
for I am the voice
the soul of a nation
the heart forever beating
My love my only friend the mountains
standing strong for all eternity
Tear me apart
yet will I rise again
a stronger prouder
KURDISTAN

Do I not have the right to defend myself
for I am a nation divided
invaded and ignored
To my north I am suppressed
my culture banned
my very tongue unheard
To my south I am free
my hospitals my schools
my papers and TV
are all in my so joyous tongue

Yet we are of one blood
were we in body form
would it not be a crime to tear us limb from limb
would not the world cry torture
at a body being torn apart thusly
and tossed aside to be trampled into the dust
We are one blood
One body
One Nation
ONE KURDISTAN :ymparty:
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