Sorani + Kurmanci Mix = New Kurdish!

[Sirwan]

Based on different measures, following Kurdish dialects dominate Kurdistan:

Population: Kurmanji
Distribution: Kurmanji
Medieval literature: Kurmanji + Hewrami (Gorani)
Easier to be understood by speakers of other dialects: Kurmanji (It simply has lost musch of gramatical features)
Modern literature: Sorani
Current Offical status: Sorani
Being understood by most of Kurds in south and east : Sorani

So you see that it is difficult to choose which one has a higher hand among the Kurds.

But Diri Sorani (central Kurdish) is gramatically very very close to the dialects spoken in southeastern Kurdistan known as southern Kurdish or feyli, kirmanshani, xanaqini, kalhori, ilami etc. the main difference between sorani and these dialects is that they use a higher number of farsi loanwords than Sorani does. and I think that they and Sorani-speakers can very easily communicate. In my opinion southern Kurdish to central Kurdish is similar to Badini to Kurmanji used in north.
One thing more is that Gorani (hewrami) which is a very archaic form of Kurdish is only spoken in a very small enclave located between Sorani-speaking area and southern Kurdish speaking area (north of kirmanshah and south of Slemani). I estimate them to be lesser than one mllion since most of them in recent century have shifted to Sorani and the remaining are mostly able to speak Sorani. My aim is to show you that Sorani is naturally dominant in eastern and southern Kurdistan, and is rapidly 'devoloping' as a 'modern' language with a lot of technical and non-literature terms and expressions.

To conclude I'm trying to say: While all dialects and languages of Kurdistan Kurmanji, Sorani, Hewrami (Gorani), Zazaki and even kelhori, Leki, Ilami (+ Aramaic, Arabic Armenian etc..) should be an official language of their respective regions, but we have to agree that based on many factors Sorani and Kurmanji dominate Kurdistan, AND it is difficult to choose between these two too. A semi-natural and scientific modifying of one of these two dialects (sorani and Kurmanji) by the other one, preferebly a Kurmanjizied Sorani (for many reasons mentioned above in my previous post plus the fact that Sorani enjoys a better official opportinuty than Kurmanji does) smoothes the path towards assimilating of current standard Kurmanji and current standard Sorani into one well-miexd and popular standard Kurdish dialect in less than one decade.
I hope clarified my spot enough.

[Diri]

I don't disagree with Soranî being the language of South and East Kurdistan.

I never disagreed with that. But as I tried to say in my previous post: we should at ALL costs avoid speaking of modifying or creating a new standard Kurdish dialect by mixing Kurmancî and Soranî that in itself is counter-productive to what I am trying to explain as the alienation of Zazakî and Goranî Kurds.

As for your assertion that Badînî Kurmancî is as different from Bakûrî Kurmancî as Soranî is from Lekî and Kelhûrî - I disagree very much with that. My own sub-dialect of Kurmancî, namely Colemêrgî, is closer to Badînî than Amedî Kurmancî for example... Yet - we have no difference in vocabulary or grammatical structure of our spoken language - and thus one cannot compare these minor differences with those of larger scale between Soranî and Goranî.

When I say "Goranî" I do not mean simply Hewramî. "Goranî" is a term used to categorize Hewramî, Kelhûrî, Lekî and Feylî. Of course, Hewramî in itself deserves a separate category, since as you said yourself Sîrwan gyan, Lekî, Kelhûrî and Feylî are closer to Soranî than to Hewramî.

But still, it is easier for a Badînî speaker and an Amedî speaker to communicate than for a Hewêrî and a Kirmaşanî to communicate. In both cases, of course, things depend on how educated the speakers are - if they've finished highschool or university level education - while another factor would be how mature they are - in e.g. how much they've travelled and seen things beyond their own known sphere. A person who's been stuck in Hewlêr city from birth till his 20's will have problems communicating with a Kirmaşanî of the same situation. Why? Because these two groups of people are divided by more than just a political border - also by literature, culture and social barriers which differ from Hewlêr to Kirmaşan. Whereas with Badînî and Amedî speakers, they listen to the same Kurmancî music and read the same media - watching both Roj TV and Kurdistan TV with no problem at all...

Now it's worth to mention that you are right in your assertion that Soranî is developing into the "modern" language which is spoken on TV and based on the Silêmanî standard - it is gaining momentum indeed also in Rojhelat. But the process is very new and has yet to grow to full potential...

Despite Badînî, Colemêrgî and Rojawayî Kurds being divided from the larger Kurmancî speaking areas (which are the most productive in cultural terms: music, media etc. for Kurmancî), they still have a strong bond...

Your point is of course very much valid and "maqbûl" or "adî" (if I would say it in Soranî - though both Arabic words).

I for one disagree with the notion that we should pick one dialect/language over the others. That in my eyes is stabbing the Zazakî and Goranî speaking Kurds in the back. We must respect and distribute in all 4 major dialects/languages.

I disagree with Armenian, Arabic, Turkmen or Assyrian being made official languages in any "regions" of Kurdistan. The Assyrians should be supported in their demands for a national homeland including the whole of the Nineveh Plains instead - which is more productive for Kurdish economy (having a smaller dependent political unit as a neighbour).

Armenian and Arabic as well as Turkmen should all be thaught in school to those of these native tongues, but they're status should remain sub-ordinate within Kurdistan - as they are not native to Kurdistan...

[Sirwan]

I don't disagree with Soranî being the language of South and East Kurdistan.


As for your assertion that Badînî Kurmancî is as different from Bakûrî Kurmancî as Soranî is from Lekî and Kelhûrî - I disagree very much with that. My own sub-dialect of Kurmancî, namely Colemêrgî, is closer to Badînî than Amedî Kurmancî for example... Yet - we have no difference in vocabulary or grammatical structure of our spoken language - and thus one cannot compare these minor differences with those of larger scale between Soranî and Goranî.

When I say "Goranî" I do not mean simply Hewramî. "Goranî" is a term used to categorize Hewramî, Kelhûrî, Lekî and Feylî. Of course, Hewramî in itself deserves a separate category, since as you said yourself Sîrwan gyan, Lekî, Kelhûrî and Feylî are closer to Soranî than to Hewramî.

But still, it is easier for a Badînî speaker and an Amedî speaker to communicate than for a Hewêrî and a Kirmaşanî to communicate. In both cases, of course, things depend on how educated the speakers are - if they've finished highschool or university level education - while another factor would be how mature they are - in e.g. how much they've travelled and seen things beyond their own known sphere. A person who's been stuck in Hewlêr city from birth till his 20's will have problems communicating with a Kirmaşanî of the same situation. Why? Because these two groups of people are divided by more than just a political border - also by literature, culture and social barriers which differ from Hewlêr to Kirmaşan. Whereas with Badînî and Amedî speakers, they listen to the same Kurmancî music and read the same media - watching both Roj TV and Kurdistan TV with no problem at all...

Now it's worth to mention that you are right in your assertion that Soranî is developing into the "modern" language which is spoken on TV and based on the Silêmanî standard - it is gaining momentum indeed also in Rojhelat. But the process is very new and has yet to grow to full potential...

Despite Badînî, Colemêrgî and Rojawayî Kurds being divided from the larger Kurmancî speaking areas (which are the most productive in cultural terms: music, media etc. for Kurmancî), they still have a strong bond...

Your point is of course very much valid and "maqbûl" or "adî" (if I would say it in Soranî - though both Arabic words).

Diri southern Kurdish is apparently much closer to central Kurdish than what you may thought! by southern Kurdish I mean, Kelhori, feyli, leki, ilami, xanaqini. Hewrami is not much close to this subdialetcs of southern Kurdish. I usulally have used Gorani for Hewrami, although I do not see it wrong to use Gorani for whole of southern Kurdish speaking area. But as I said the differences of southern Kurdish subdialects enlisted ebove, with Sorani is predominantly non-gramatical and merely phonetical and lexical!!

Southern Kurds (Kermanshahis, xanaqinis, ilamis, etc) only change a some sorani sounds according to their own accent:

Sorani >> souther Kurdish subdialects
B >> w (ex: be > we)
O >> û (ex: Roj> rûj, dost> Dûst)
Û >> Ü (ex: dûr > dür)
st >> s (e:> dest > des)
etc...
and very small gramatical differences:
an >> êl (plural suffix)
bo >> era (for)


Since most of southern Kurds because of their common Shia faith have undergone an influence from Farsis hence they also use a good deal of farsi loanwords. But since the Islamic republic has alieniated many non-farsi shiate ethnic groups from Iranian nationalism, like shia Azerbaijanis who innitially were strong supporters of the Sia state but know dont care about Shiism but tend to insist on their Turk ethnic origins, the Shia Kurds too have a more enthusiasm towards their Kurdish brethern and dialects than to shia farsis.


Therefore any Sorani Kurd who cannot understand southern Kurdish easily, has no good knowledge of his own Sorani dialect!!

Listen to this song in southern Kurdish and compare it with standard sorani spoken in and around Slemani! very close is'nt it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tHYaPxUCvo&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

[Diri]

That's what I said bira can... Hewramî should be categorized separately from Kelhûrî, Lekî, Feylî etc... From now on when I say "Goranî" I exclude Hewramî as a separate group. As a matter of fact, "Goranî" would be the same as what you call "Southern Kurdish".

I'm just being realistic when I say that uneducated people will have problems understanding people from a different dialect. Simply because one must study in ones language to understand the mechanisms at work and how the different parts of the Kurdish language (grammar: phonology, phonetics, morphology, syntax and semantics) interact. I don't think that YouTube video is a good way of checking how much a Soranî speaker would understand of Goranî... In fact, songs are the worst way to compare dialects/languages. Because songs are lyrical and poetic - they tend to bend linguistic/grammatical rules...

But of course, bira - you as somebody from Sine will understand Kirmaşanî way better than what a Hewlêrî, Kerkûkî or Silemanî resident would... You have cultural and social bonds with Kirmaşan - which are not disrupted by political and economic ties (like in the case of Kurds in Iraqi Kurdistan).

Kurds in all parts of Kurdistan feel closer to eachother than they do to Kurds across the border - for political reasons... Even though I am from Ûrmiye and you from Sine - I am sure we'll have a more in common with respect to our backgrounds, than you will with people from Kerkûk or I will with people from Amed...

But that aside - you said earlier in your posts that Kurmancî has lost a lot of it's archaic forms/grammatical structure... Would you mind explaining in detail? Thanks...

[Sirwan]

I'm just being realistic when I say that uneducated people will have problems understanding people from a different dialect. Simply because one must study in ones language to understand the mechanisms at work and how the different parts of the Kurdish language (grammar: phonology, phonetics, morphology, syntax and semantics) interact. I don't think that YouTube video is a good way of checking how much a Soranî speaker would understand of Goranî... In fact, songs are the worst way to compare dialects/languages. Because songs are lyrical and poetic - they tend to bend linguistic/grammatical rules...

The main factor which separates Kurds of Goran from Kurds of Sorani area is different fatihs Shia and Sunni parcticed by these groups. Indeed as you see their dialectical differences are so small that they can easily understand eachothers songs. Songs in my opinion are very important links between peoples. they serve both linguistically and culturally to integrate various people groups. and as you know what this thread is talking about is a standard literary dialect for Kurds.

But that aside - you said earlier in your posts that Kurmancî has lost a lot of it's archaic forms/grammatical structure... Would you mind explaining in detail? Thanks...

Some important gramatical features which unfortunately Kurmanji has lost include: the preservation of enclitic personal pronouns, lose of definitive article (eke- ekan = the) in Kurmanji, passsive conjugation as in Sorani which is similar to Avestan and gorani and hewrami and zaza, has been lost in Kurmanci which employs the auxiliary hatin, 'come' to name a few...

[Diri]

I'm just being realistic when I say that uneducated people will have problems understanding people from a different dialect. Simply because one must study in ones language to understand the mechanisms at work and how the different parts of the Kurdish language (grammar: phonology, phonetics, morphology, syntax and semantics) interact. I don't think that YouTube video is a good way of checking how much a Soranî speaker would understand of Goranî... In fact, songs are the worst way to compare dialects/languages. Because songs are lyrical and poetic - they tend to bend linguistic/grammatical rules...

The main factor which separates Kurds of Goran from Kurds of Sorani area is different fatihs Shia and Sunni parcticed by these groups. Indeed as you see their dialectical differences are so small that they can easily understand eachothers songs. Songs in my opinion are very important links between peoples. they serve both linguistically and culturally to integrate various people groups. and as you know what this thread is talking about is a standard literary dialect for Kurds.

I think you mistunderstood me. I didn't say songs aren't culturall/linguistic links. What I said was: One cannot rely on songs for grammatical correctness or phonetic correctness, to be more specific. Songs as all lyrical prose - such as poems and plays too - is free of linguistic correctness. The singer has the artistic freedom to bend or alter words and to use whatever words he/she finds suitable for a certain phrase or meaning to be conveyed. We can't then scientifically rely on songs to be a mirror of how people actually speak - which in most cases, is very different from how they sing. That was the point I was making.

Yes, indeed the difference is adherence to separate sects of Islam. Yet not everybody is as educated or has the experience of life to understand people of other dialects. Some people are more inclined than others either because of experience or because of education. I as a Kurmancî native speaker had no problem with understanding what he was singing, for example - although I would have faced a little more hardship if I were speaking to a Kirmaşanî face-to-face... Yet most Kurmancî speakers would in fact have too great difficulties understanding a person from Kirmaşan, if he were to speak his Kirmaşanî dialect fully. Why? Because most Kurmancî speakers have not been exposed to other dialects of Kurdish. Except Kurmancî speakers from Badînan and Colemêrg provinces, who live in areas bordering with Soranî speaking Mûkriyan and Soran provinces of Kurdistan... What I'm trying to say is: don't take for granted that people understand eachothers dialects - just because of great similarities. You have obviously researched on the matter and educated yourself - while most people don't (either because they haven't got the opportunity/means or because it's simply not "interesting" for them).

But that aside - you said earlier in your posts that Kurmancî has lost a lot of it's archaic forms/grammatical structure... Would you mind explaining in detail? Thanks...

Some important gramatical features which unfortunately Kurmanji has lost include: the preservation of enclitic personal pronouns, lose of definitive article (eke- ekan = the) in Kurmanji, passsive conjugation as in Sorani which is similar to Avestan and gorani and hewrami and zaza, has been lost in Kurmanci which employs the auxiliary hatin, 'come' to name a few...

Yes, we do not have "-it" ("yours" singular) and "-yan" ("theirs") and "-tan" ("yours" plural) nor do we have "-man" (ours)- that's as far as enclitic personal pro-nouns go...

But - I would argue that this is a rather un-Kurdish trait. It's actually more common among Semitic (Afro-Asiatic) languages than it is among Indo-European. You will find it in both Soranî and Goranî and also in Persian... I don't know whether it exists in Balochi or Gilani or other Iranic languages, but I am under the impression that this is a foreign element to Soranî and Goranî Kurdish dialects. Please expand on the subject if you have any examples or sources which say otherwise...

Could you please give examples of some passive conjugations as they function in Soranî?



This is very interesting - by the way - thank you!

[Sirwan]

I'm just being realistic when I say that uneducated people will have problems understanding people from a different dialect. Simply because one must study in ones language to understand the mechanisms at work and how the different parts of the Kurdish language (grammar: phonology, phonetics, morphology, syntax and semantics) interact. I don't think that YouTube video is a good way of checking how much a Soranî speaker would understand of Goranî... In fact, songs are the worst way to compare dialects/languages. Because songs are lyrical and poetic - they tend to bend linguistic/grammatical rules...

The main factor which separates Kurds of Goran from Kurds of Sorani area is different fatihs Shia and Sunni parcticed by these groups. Indeed as you see their dialectical differences are so small that they can easily understand eachothers songs. Songs in my opinion are very important links between peoples. they serve both linguistically and culturally to integrate various people groups. and as you know what this thread is talking about is a standard literary dialect for Kurds.

I think you mistunderstood me. I didn't say songs aren't culturall/linguistic links. What I said was: One cannot rely on songs for grammatical correctness or phonetic correctness, to be more specific. Songs as all lyrical prose - such as poems and plays too - is free of linguistic correctness. The singer has the artistic freedom to bend or alter words and to use whatever words he/she finds suitable for a certain phrase or meaning to be conveyed. We can't then scientifically rely on songs to be a mirror of how people actually speak - which in most cases, is very different from how they sing. That was the point I was making.

Yes, indeed the difference is adherence to separate sects of Islam. Yet not everybody is as educated or has the experience of life to understand people of other dialects. Some people are more inclined than others either because of experience or because of education. I as a Kurmancî native speaker had no problem with understanding what he was singing, for example - although I would have faced a little more hardship if I were speaking to a Kirmaşanî face-to-face... Yet most Kurmancî speakers would in fact have too great difficulties understanding a person from Kirmaşan, if he were to speak his Kirmaşanî dialect fully. Why? Because most Kurmancî speakers have not been exposed to other dialects of Kurdish. Except Kurmancî speakers from Badînan and Colemêrg provinces, who live in areas bordering with Soranî speaking Mûkriyan and Soran provinces of Kurdistan... What I'm trying to say is: don't take for granted that people understand eachothers dialects - just because of great similarities. You have obviously researched on the matter and educated yourself - while most people don't (either because they haven't got the opportunity/means or because it's simply not "interesting" for them).

Diri that is an establihed fact that southern and central Kurdish are grammatically closer to eachother than they are to northern Kurdish. many sources i've seen classify southern Kurdish and central Kurdish both as two branchs of ''southern Kurmanji''

Yes, we do not have "-it" ("yours" singular) and "-yan" ("theirs") and "-tan" ("yours" plural) nor do we have "-man" (ours)- that's as far as enclitic personal pro-nouns go...

But - I would argue that this is a rather un-Kurdish trait. It's actually more common among Semitic (Afro-Asiatic) languages than it is among Indo-European. You will find it in both Soranî and Goranî and also in Persian... I don't know whether it exists in Balochi or Gilani or other Iranic languages, but I am under the impression that this is a foreign element to Soranî and Goranî Kurdish dialects. Please expand on the subject if you have any examples or sources which say otherwise...

Many Indo-european languages including Avestan had enclictic pronouns. Hurrian had it too.

Could you please give examples of some passive conjugations as they function in Soranî?

This is very interesting - by the way - thank you!

All verbs in southern dialects which end with -ya/yê are passive or at least non-transitive. (a similar feature is apparently true for zazaki too)
All verbs in Sorani which end with -ra/-rê are passive verbs.
Example in Sorani:
Nûsî => He wrote------- Nûsra => it was writen------ Denûsrê => it is being writen
kirdî => he did------- Kira => it was done -----------dekirê => it is being done
etc...

This feature also existed both in Avestan and in Hurrian.


A suffix definite article both singular and plural like as in southern and central Kurdish dialects existed in Hurrian too. (it is said that zazaki has it too.)

[Diri]

Diri that is an establihed fact that southern and central Kurdish are grammatically closer to eachother than they are to northern Kurdish. many sources i've seen classify southern Kurdish and central Kurdish both as two branchs of ''southern Kurmanji''

Okey - thanks

Many Indo-european languages including Avestan had enclictic pronouns. Hurrian had it too.

Okey - thanks... That's interesting...

Hurrian was not an Indo-European language...

All verbs in southern dialects which end with -ya/yê are passive or at least non-transitive. (a similar feature is apparently true for zazaki too)
All verbs in Sorani which end with -ra/-rê are passive verbs.
Example in Sorani:
Nûsî => He wrote------- Nûsra => it was writen------ Denûsrê => it is being writen
kirdî => he did------- Kira => it was done -----------dekirê => it is being done
etc...

This feature also existed both in Avestan and in Hurrian.

A suffix definite article both singular and plural like as in southern and central Kurdish dialects existed in Hurrian too. (it is said that zazaki has it too.)

Which verbs (in southern Kurdish) end with "-ya" or "-yê"? Is that a referal to Kurmancî?

In Kurmancî we have the passive conjugation - although not as suffix to the preceding verb, but as a separate entity... Oh - I just read your sentence once more now and I realized what you mean. But your punctuation lead me to understand something entirely different - so if you'd only put a comma after "Kurmancî" in your sentence I'd get your point:

passsive conjugation as in Sorani which is similar to Avestan and gorani and hewrami and zaza, has been lost in Kurmanci which employs the auxiliary hatin, 'come' to name a few...

Comma after the word "Kurmancî" would mean it is Kurmancî which "employs the auxiliary hatin" - and not that Soranî does - which is what your sentence implies now, without the comma.

But - that said, now I understand what you were driving at - and your point is crystal clear... Thank you! This is very educational and sophisticated! I've been missing this kind of interaction for a while now... Zor sûpasit dekem kake gyan!


All this aside - although Kurmancî has lost some of it's more archaic trait, it has also kept some which Soranî has deparated with. Such as sex both for nouns and for personal pronouns. In fact altogether...

It's all "wî"/"ewî" in Soranî - while in Kurmancî it's "wi" (he) and "wê" (she). And in Kurmancî each noun is awarded a sex ("-a" and "-ê") - which is not the case in Soranî where everything ends with "-î", having no sex at all.

There are some other things which I can't seem to put my hands on right at the spur of the moment - but which I shall formulate before I write... So - for next post...

[Sirwan]

Hurrian was not an Indo-European language...

I know Diri gyan, I said it just because it is possible that Hurrian left many substrara and traces in the aryanized Kurdish.

All this aside - although Kurmancî has lost some of it's more archaic trait, it has also kept some which Soranî has deparated with. Such as sex both for nouns and for personal pronouns. In fact altogether...

It's all "wî"/"ewî" in Soranî - while in Kurmancî it's "wi" (he) and "wê" (she). And in Kurmancî each noun is awarded a sex ("-a" and "-ê") - which is not the case in Soranî where everything ends with "-î", having no sex at all.

yes, and these are what I rfered to in my first post in this thread that although northern Kurmanji has been simplified and has lost its definite articles, passive suffixes, enclitic pronouns, (note: these are preserved in all non-northern Kurmanji dialects), but it has preserved sex both for nouns and for personal pronouns, something which Sorani could regain again, and it is not artificial because we know that even Sorani once used it.

One interesting point in Sanandaji dialect which belongs to southern Sorani is that they use no izafe! while northern Kurmanji uses a/ê and standard Sorani uses î as izafe in sanandaji sorani dialect they use no izafe in most cases!!
thus:
Northern Kurmanji: gula min, yarê min
standard Sorani: gulî min, yarî min
sanandaji sorani: gul min, yar min

the only exeption is when the word ends with a vowel (a, e, ê, o, û), in this case they use a ''y'' as izafe.

And one more interesting thing regarding gramatical gender in kurdish dialects is sex for ''verbs'' in hewrami!! I see this very interesting!

[Diri]

Thank you kak Sîrwan gyan - that's very interesting!


Well - there is one thing more which I haven't encountered in Soranî, but which we have in Kurmancî:

The sex of certain nouns is determined by the sex of the person refered to.

For example:

Yar = Lover (Uni-sex + uncountable)
Yara Min = My Lover (if the "yar" is a girl)
Yarê Min = My Lover (if the "yar" is a boy)

Mamoste = Teacher (Uni-sex + uncountable)
Mamosta Min = My Teacher (if the "mamoste" is female)
Mamostê Min = My Teacher (if the "mamoste" is male)

Do you have that in Soranî or in Goranî - or perhaps it exists in Hewaramî since you say it's verbs also refere to sex?

[Sirwan]

Thank you kak Sîrwan gyan - that's very interesting!

you are welcome!

Well - there is one thing more which I haven't encountered in Soranî, but which we have in Kurmancî:

The sex of certain nouns is determined by the sex of the person refered to.

For example:

Yar = Lover (Uni-sex + uncountable)
Yara Min = My Lover (if the "yar" is a girl)
Yarê Min = My Lover (if the "yar" is a boy)

Mamoste = Teacher (Uni-sex + uncountable)
Mamosta Min = My Teacher (if the "mamoste" is female)
Mamostê Min = My Teacher (if the "mamoste" is male)

Do you have that in Soranî or in Goranî - or perhaps it exists in Hewaramî since you say it's verbs also refere to sex?

This is what we refered to in previous posts! in northern-Kurmanji unlike all other dialects of Kurdistan, there is two sorts of izafe according to gender: male ê and female a.
Sorani uses a neutral î, which based on sorani Kurmanji changing of ê to î and vice versa some may argue that it is the same as northern kurmanji izafe male ê and hence claim that in Sorani exists only male izafe.

In hewrami exists two forms of izafe but they are not different because of 'gender' rather than their 'function':
î or y is an izafe for nouns followed by an adjective
ex: yarî shîrîn, Asoy gesh etc...
û or w is an izafe for nouns followed by a noun
ex: yarû min, kurû min etc...

But another form of gramatical gender distinction in hewrami in addition to its verbal gender cases is its definite articles which followes their respective noun by gender: eke: male the, ekê : female the.

[Diri]

Hewramî, basically, is a very complex language... Yet - very structured! Many rules to follow... This makes it all the more clearer why Kurmancî would be the easiest dialect to learn if one doesn't speak Kurdish at all...


Yes I know we discussed the sex of nouns and pro-nouns... I was just thinking of something else when I wrote that - can't realy remember what...

[Sirwan]

Hewramî, basically, is a very complex language... Yet - very structured! Many rules to follow...

Yes exactly! these all make many Kurdish scholars to regard Hewrami as modern Avestan..

This makes it all the more clearer why Kurmancî would be the easiest dialect to learn if one doesn't speak Kurdish at all...

Exactly!!! Gramatically northern Kurmanji has been very very simplified!

[raman82]

So what is the lingua franca of Kurds now , ironically I read some where lots of kurds communicate in Turkish and use that as lingua franca for the time being at least.

[Diri]

So what is the lingua franca of Kurds now , ironically I read some where lots of kurds communicate in Turkish and use that as lingua franca for the time being at least.

It's not that Turkish is a lingua franca - but that assimilated Kurds who don't speak their language, will naturally have to communicate in Turkish, rather than Kurdish...

Kurds have two lingua francas ------> Kurmancî and Soranî...

Zazakî Kurds usually learn Kurmancî too - while Goranî and Hewramî Kurds usually learn Soranî too...

And Kurmancî & Soranî, as you probably know by now, are mutually intelligable... So Soranî and Kurmancî speakers can communicate with little difference in vocabulary and grammar... The differences have already been discussed in this thread - sex, enclitic pro-nouns, passive suffixes etc...