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post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emmunah » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:05 am

Emanoelkurdistani wrote:
Emmunah wrote:Woman is "jin" in Kurdish? < Yes it shares etymological root with English "queen", Armenians "kin". Also Russian "jenika" (zhenika).

and isn't "jinni" the word for demon :shock: < Dont get "shocked"! You know nothing of Kurdish language, as you cannot read it's Latin script. It's pronounced (in English letters) as "zhyn" though your mentioned word is pronounced "jenni". It's exactly an Iranificated Arabic word from Arabic "jinn"/"jenn" ~ "mare/devil". :)

I like the word bra for brother. I have a nice bra. :lol: < why not? In Kurdish we got "birader/bira" ~ etymologically equal to English "brother/bro"


I'm glad ure interested in Linguistics, what's ur mother tongue? let me guess, is not it Assyrian?! It's cool, do you have any similarities with European Languages?! What about Arabic?! Does your language exactly share same roots with Arabic?! Unfortunately another Assyrian guy just told me "Arabic is a dirty language"!! :shock: An Assyrian must not talk so!! You know what I mean?! :? :lol:


I'm not that shocked. :D I pronouce "jin" zhyn too, but sometimes slip to Jinni in an affectionate way. It is in the Kurdish dictionary online "jin" and not the more transliterated "zhyn". I think the jinn/jenn may be symbolic. If I recall it's use, the idea of a mare and horse was also associated with a "uncontrolled force", much like the "Jinn" of Ancient thought. Women are also often thought of as "an uncontrolled force" so it would make sense to see the symbolism as the same.

I speak English and only a very small selection of words from other languages. I speak some Hebrew, I know some Arabic words (the languages are very similar), and only what I have learned in Kurdish from friends and family....And even there, I find small dialect differences.

As my grandfather has told me part of my family spoke Dzhidi and Lishanid Noshan from the Barzani area. No one speaks these neo-aramaic languages anymore. The older Kurdish Jews in Israel are the only remaining speakers.

Arabic is a beautiful language if you ask me, but the problem with it is that no one really speaks it in a pure sense. Every country speaks it different. In Lebanon it is mostly Aramaic, but even in Egypt you couldn't really say it's pure arabic. You have to go to the liturgical Arabic to find any pure form.

Hebrew is the same, there are many borrow wordsY, from English, Arabic, Lebanese, Yiddish, Ladino, and Russian. You can't converse in liturgical Hebrew, you have to know the "living language", and it is an evolving language because of the influx of people.
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: matin123 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:48 pm

my grandfather is kurdish jew from sanandaj and his mother tongue is aramaic. kurdish jews that go to israel are assimilating into hebrew language and the kurdish jews that come to america (especially los angeles) are mostly assimilating into farsi due to intermarriage with persians and also the large persian community of los angeles. it's such a beautiful and holy language . it's a shame to see it fade away. also, aramaic is said to be the only language that the angels cannot understand.

:D
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emmunah » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:41 am

That's very interesting, I had never heard that angels couldn't understand Aramaic.

Some of the oldest Jewish prayers are still said in Aramaic. :D No wonder we Jews have had so much trouble LOL.
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:21 am

@ Emmunah

I'm not that shocked. I pronouce "jin" zhyn too, but sometimes slip to Jinni in an affectionate way. It is in the Kurdish dictionary online "jin" and not the more transliterated "zhyn". < youre right sister, but "zhyn" is the pronounciation and entirely unrelated to Arabic "jinn" > "jinni"

I think the jinn/jenn may be symbolic. If I recall it's use, the idea of a mare and horse was also associated with a "uncontrolled force", much like the "Jinn" of Ancient thought. Women are also often thought of as "an uncontrolled force" so it would make sense to see the symbolism as the same. < Nice idea :)

I speak English and only a very small selection of words from other languages. I speak some Hebrew, I know some Arabic words (the languages are very similar), and only what I have learned in Kurdish from friends and family....And even there, I find small dialect differences.

As my grandfather has told me part of my family spoke Dzhidi and Lishanid Noshan from the Barzani area. No one speaks these neo-aramaic languages anymore. The older Kurdish Jews in Israel are the only remaining speakers. < I see, sorry I just got you wrong! Entirely wrong! I dont know why I though u might be a ADM Fascist! Anyway, slikhaa! I appericiate Kurdish Jews of Barzan. Ser chawekanim, xwishke (you're sight of my eyes, sister) :D .

Arabic is a beautiful language if you ask me < Well exactly there isnt any certain academic measures to say if a language is beautiful or not, it just depends on ur personal view. But I can say for sure that Arabic literature, songs and their way of singing are strong.

Hebrew is the same, there are many borrow wordsY, from English, Arabic, Lebanese, Yiddish, Ladino, and Russian. You can't converse in liturgical Hebrew, you have to know the "living language", and it is an evolving language because of the influx of people. < Yes, I know. A long history of diaspora and indeed the appearence of Yiddish, Ladino-Hebro, Greco-Hebro, etc. are fairly normal. Also I really love Hebrew language, you know almost except Muhammad and Jesus of Nazeria, the rest of "Arbrahamic" prophets were Native Hebrew Speakers. Even well as Quran referres the term "Kalim Allah" (Spoken with God) to Moses since "God talked to Moses..." Indeed Moses were a Native Hebrew Speaker, so who knows maybe God originally speaks Hebrew! (I just try to give the priority to Hebrew! 8) lol)

Is ur Hebrew perfect?! aane medaaber raak kessat evrit! (4 honest "ane lo mevin! :( )
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emmunah » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:13 pm

I speak only enough words to pray :lol:

I still think the origin of the word "jin" "zhyn" is kurdish --> Arabic. I think it may have early origins in speaking of fire spirits or in the Zoroastrian concepts of "elemental spirits". Perhaps it occurs in Sanskrit too? Which may mean it's origin is proto-indo-European that made its way into Arabic from the interactions of empire. I don't have the ability to research that, but it would be a very interesting study.

I am impressed with the languages you all know! :D
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: matin123 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:31 pm

Emanoelkurdistani wrote:
Arabic is a beautiful language if you ask me < Well exactly there isnt any certain academic measures to say if a language is beautiful or not, it just depends on ur personal view. But I can say for sure that Arabic literature, songs and their way of singing are strong.

Hebrew is the same, there are many borrow wordsY, from English, Arabic, Lebanese, Yiddish, Ladino, and Russian. You can't converse in liturgical Hebrew, you have to know the "living language", and it is an evolving language because of the influx of people. < Yes, I know. A long history of diaspora and indeed the appearence of Yiddish, Ladino-Hebro, Greco-Hebro, etc. are fairly normal. Also I really love Hebrew language, you know almost except Muhammad and Jesus of Nazeria, the rest of "Arbrahamic" prophets were Native Hebrew Speakers. Even well as Quran referres the term "Kalim Allah" (Spoken with God) to Moses since "God talked to Moses..." Indeed Moses were a Native Hebrew Speaker, so who knows maybe God originally speaks Hebrew! (I just try to give the priority to Hebrew! 8) lol)

Is ur Hebrew perfect?! aane medaaber raak kessat evrit! (4 honest "ane lo mevin! :( )


i agree that hebrew and arabic are beautiful languages especially when read and spoken correctly.

today, modern day israelis have modernized the language and don't pronounce the letters correctly. for example the letter waw is read in modern hebrew as vav. the letter ח or het should be read like the arabic ħ (h sound in the word Habib) but instead is read as khet by modern israelis. ק or qoof should be pronounced like the letter qaph in arabic but instead is pronounced as koof with a k by modern israelis. there are many more such examples. i believe this is mostly the result of ashkenazi (european, american) jews who have migrated back to their homeland and have a difficult time pronouncing such letters.

similarly, i'm sure you already know of the differeces between sat and sin, aein and aleph, zal and zeh, tein and teh, etc. in arabic / farsi which are usually read with the same sound in modern speech.

and it's true that the abrahamic prophets were native hebrew speakers but abraham himself spoke aramaic as his native tongue and hebrew was considered a holy language used for prayer.

i also wanted to ask you a question. what is the origin of the word shet (crazy) in kurdish ? in our aramaic (kurdistani jewish dialect) we also say shet for crazy. i wanted to know if it's originally kurdish or aramaic.

thanks
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: matin123 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:37 pm

Emmunah wrote:That's very interesting, I had never heard that angels couldn't understand Aramaic.

Some of the oldest Jewish prayers are still said in Aramaic. :D No wonder we Jews have had so much trouble LOL.


lol yes for example our qadish prayer is in aramaic
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Barış » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:10 am

Ktzat Meshuga'at. :wink:

Sha'alu Shalom Yisrael. [-o<


Anyways, Isn't ''shlama'' the Aramaic word for ''peace''? It's similar to the Hebrew word ''shalom''

Also does ''slotha'' mean ''prayer''?

Have you heard of Yona Sabar? http://www.libreka.de/9783447045575
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emmunah » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:15 am

Yes, I agree, some of these words are almost as old as the world :lol:

But, then...I guess that would be a different thread.

Thank you all for your help and words.
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emmunah » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:17 am

Yes, I agree, some of these words are almost as old as the world :lol:

Ktzat Meshuga'at
.

LOL!

Let there be peace everywhere and only fight for justice.

But, then...I guess we would need a different thread for the Semitic languages.

Thank you all for your help and words. You're terrific!
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Barış » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:00 pm

Hey Emmunah,

Yea, World peace. :D

Do you have a blog ''Peshmerga Women''? There's a topic in ShoutRoom ''Israel-Kurdistan blog''. The blog link is listed in that blog.

Okey, back on topic! :lol:

As you were...
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emmunah » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:31 pm

Yep. The Peshmerga Women blog is my blog. :D

I'll go look at the other thread.

Thanks
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:04 am

@ Emmunah

I speak only enough words to pray :lol: < I hoped you could learn me some more...! :o :( , lol Anyway, I think you may improve your Kurdish and Hebrew both. :)


I still think the origin of the word "jin" "zhyn" is kurdish --> Arabic. I think it may have early origins in speaking of fire spirits or in the Zoroastrian concepts of "elemental spirits". Perhaps it occurs in Sanskrit too? Which may mean it's origin is proto-indo-European that made its way into Arabic from the interactions of empire. I don't have the ability to research that, but it would be a very interesting study. < The Indo-European root is obvious, since also English "queen" shares the certain same root with Kurdish "jin". And abt Arabic "جن" being an Iranian loan, 4 now I cannot say it for sure. But I think it may help: indeed the Old Iranian (Avestan) word was "ceni-" (pron. "jani-") of which today Kurdish "jin" (pron. "zhyn") and Persian "زن" (pron. "zan") are derived.



I am impressed with the languages you all know! :D < I'm just interested in linguistics. Also once my father told me "every language you could speak = a new person you would be..." So I wish once I couldnt count how many persons I am! :D 8) , lol


@ Kak Matin


today, modern day israelis have modernized the language and don't pronounce the letters correctly. for example the letter waw is read in modern hebrew as vav. the letter ח or het should be read like the arabic ħ (h sound in the word Habib) but instead is read as khet by modern israelis. ק or qoof should be pronounced like the letter qaph in arabic but instead is pronounced as koof with a k by modern israelis. there are many more such examples. i believe this is mostly the result of ashkenazi (european, american) jews who have migrated back to their homeland and have a difficult time pronouncing such letters.

similarly, i'm sure you already know of the differeces between sat and sin, aein and aleph, zal and zeh, tein and teh, etc. in arabic / farsi which are usually read with the same sound in modern speech. < Yup, youre right bro. There is much trouble for European and American Jews to speak Hebrew in a suitable accent.


i also wanted to ask you a question. what is the origin of the word shet (crazy) in kurdish ? in our aramaic (kurdistani jewish dialect) we also say shet for crazy. i wanted to know if it's originally kurdish or aramaic. < Well "shet" is exactly Kurdish. Cognate with Persian (Archaic) "شیدا" (pron. "sheyda"; "sheyda va majnun", "sheyda va divane"). Also as a Kurdish loan (probably via Tati, former native Iranian language of Azerbaijan) you can find it in Azerbaijani Turkish "shit" in the same meaning as Kurdish.



Anyway, for a happy return to our topic, here are some similar Kurdish & English words which are exactly exclusive to Kurdish and Germanic Languages (Certainly No Other Indo-European Languages Share Them Too):

English : Kurdish

neck : naq

sole : sol (in meaning of "shoe")

leg : laq

house : hoz (in meanings of "tribe", "house", "court", and "village")
Last edited by Emanoelkurdistani on Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emmunah » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:24 am

I hoped you could learn me some more...! :o :( , lol Anyway, I think you may improve your Kurdish and Hebrew both.

Awwww...I'm sorry. I can help with English, but I think others can help better with other things. :D

I'm just interested in linguistics. Also once my father told me "every language you could speak = a new person you would be..." So I wish once I couldnt count how many persons I am!

You have a very smart father. I think if you don't mind, I may take that quote to use sometime when I am trying to tell people why they should learn other languages? Tell your father I asked permission okay? Give him my respect.

"The Indo-European root is obvious, since also English "queen" shares the certain same root with Kurdish "jin". And abt Arabic "جن" being an Iranian loan, 4 now I cannot say it for sure. But I think it may help: indeed the Old Iranian (Avestan) word was "ceni-" (pron. "jani-") of which today Kurdish "jin" (pron. "zhyn") and Persian "زن" (pron. "zan") are derived."

"جن"

زن"

Okay, so I'm just too curious. As I understand this is masculine form right? What would be the feminine form of the word in Arabic and Iranian script. Would jinn'ah would be feminine? Would that add to the argument for the root word coming from Indo-European then to Semitic or not? I don't know.
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Re: post simmliar words in europearn languages to Kurdish

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:44 am

Emmunah wrote:Awwww...I'm sorry. I can help with English, but I think others can help better with other things. :D < It's ok sister. :)

You have a very smart father. I think if you don't mind, I may take that quote to use sometime when I am trying to tell people why they should learn other languages? < Thanx! Well this qoute is just a personal memoir of mine, I dont know how much it could work as an "impresa".


Tell your father I asked permission okay? < No need to do so, this quote deosnt include "Copy Right"! lol...


Give him my respect. < Todaa rabaa. :)


"جن"

زن"

Okay, so I'm just too curious. As I understand this is masculine form right? What would be the feminine form of the word in Arabic and Iranian script. Would jinn'ah would be feminine? Would that add to the argument for the root word coming from Indo-European then to Semitic or not? I don't know. < Well yes I think "jinnah" is the feminine form since Quran says "... min a-jjinna(t) wa-nnas" ~ "...from/of demons and people". Also the feminine form deosnt really matter since almost all loans in Arabic accept the "mas." and "fem." forms.
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