Archaeologists discover lost language in Kurdistan

[Kurdistano]

You right, actually the ones we E.Kurds are closest to are probably just N.Iranians, Mazandaris or Gilakis, since they also have Median ancestry. The thing with Georgians phenotypically they are considerably much more Mtebid and of course have their own unique look in terms of phenotypes that is. For genetics I'm not familar how close we are to them, I've seen Kurds clustering with Georgians, but not sure if that was N.Kurds.

Guys just forgot about this Median thing. Medians are probably a good part of Kurdish ancestors but like I mentioned a thousand times before Media was made up by a ruling Group of Medes(which probably were related to Mitannis) and other Iranic Groups like Cimmerians, Scythians-Alans which used to settle in Kurdistan. Not to forget the Caucasian Groups like Manneans and Hurrians.

I thought Mitanni were just Hurrains ruled by an Indo-Aryan upper-class?
But weren't Medes one of the Iranic tribes that pourced in the Middle-east alongst with Persians? Plus I find it strange how we Kurds speak a NW Iranic language, which the Medes supossdly did. I know Scythians/Alans were also a major part of our history, Tbh I don't think we can tell, since mosto f the Iranic tribes were akin to eachother. We also have Parthian ancestry amongst Fayli Kurds.
I don't think Cimmerians were solely Iranic though, they have other indo-european factions within them. It was probably mostly an Iranic group though.

Look I will tell you something great linguists found out. Before the Persians came to might there was a linguistic continuum from Northcentral Asia to Northwest Iran. from Northwest Iran Persians, called after a region in Kurdistan known as Parsu, moved into Southwest Iran. Persians former language, the old Persian, derived from a Northwest Iranic root. Old or middle Persian is much closer to modern Kurdish as new Persian also known as farsi. First a Group of Aryans moved into Central West Kurdistan they mixed with Hurrians what became Mitannis. When Assyrians attacked Mitanni, the mixed ruling Group of Aryans fled into the Zagros Mountains and became Medes. The Medes destroyed Assyrians and slowly the Persians developed from the Medes and moved into Southwest Iran. Northwest Iranic is very similar to East Iranic and probably originated from it. East and West these are just empty terms to describe geography where it was found. You can be sure that the language of the Mitanni ruling Group was almost the same as the one spoken by Eastern Iranic groups.

[Kurdistano]

The thing is till today we dont know who these Aryans where which build Mitanni. I suppose it was the Gutians.

[jjmuneer]

Thanks for the info, well your right we can't be certain about Mitanni language. I just hate the fact how 'thesunschild' quickly jumps to the conclusion they were 100% Iranic in terms of race and culture, of course not saying it isn't true. I just like to keep the argument balanced. What are your views on Parthian origins of Fayli Kurds? M.R Izady and other kurdioligists or Historians say there is most likely a corruption of the word 'Fayli' and 'Pahli'. I'm not sure about this myself.

[Kurdistano]

Thanks for the info, well your right we can't be certain about Mitanni language. I just hate the fact how 'thesunschild' quickly jumps to the conclusion they were 100% Iranic in terms of race and culture, of course not saying it isn't true. I just like to keep the argument balanced. What are your views on Parthian origins of Fayli Kurds? M.R Izady and other kurdioligists or Historians say there is most likely a corruption of the word 'Fayli' and 'Pahli'. I'm not sure about this myself.

purity is bullcrap. The proto Aryans themselves developed as a mixing group between the Andronovo and BMAC cultures. I think they already belonged to Haplogroup R1a*, R1b, R2, J2, G and L. It was just coincidence that a Group of R1a Aryans moved into the steppes and the others into West and Central-South Asia. But what might be true, is that the Proto Indo Europeans where from West Asia, moved into Central Asia and formed the BMAC. Mixed with the Andronovo culture and became the Aryan branch of Indo Europeans.

[jjmuneer]

Thanks for the info, well your right we can't be certain about Mitanni language. I just hate the fact how 'thesunschild' quickly jumps to the conclusion they were 100% Iranic in terms of race and culture, of course not saying it isn't true. I just like to keep the argument balanced. What are your views on Parthian origins of Fayli Kurds? M.R Izady and other kurdioligists or Historians say there is most likely a corruption of the word 'Fayli' and 'Pahli'. I'm not sure about this myself.

purity is bullcrap. The proto Aryans themselves developed as a mixing group between the Andronovo and BMAC cultures. I think they already belonged to Haplogroup R1a*, R1b, R2, J2, G and L. It was just coincidence that a Group of R1a Aryans moved into the steppes and the others into West and Central-South Asia. But what might be true, is that the Proto Indo Europeans where from West Asia, moved into Central Asia and formed the BMAC. Mixed with the Andronovo culture and became the Aryan branch of Indo Europeans.

That is likely, but I thought the Andronovo culture came to be from the BMAC culture.
I found this:

Out of 10 human male remains assigned to the Andronovo horizon from the Krasnoyarsk region, 9 possessed the R1a Y-chromosome haplogroup and one Haplogroup C (Y-DNA)(xC3). mtDNA haplogroups of nine individuals assigned to the same Andronovo horizon and region were as follows: U4 (2 individuals), U2e, U5a1, Z, T1, T4, H, and K2b.
90 % of the Bronze Age period mtDNA haplogroups were of west Eurasian origin and the study determined that at least 60 % of the individuals overall (out of the 26 bronze and Iron Age human remains' samples of the study that could be tested) had light hair and blue or green eyes.[10]

A 2004 study also established that, during the bronze/Iron Age period, the majority of the population of Kazakhstan (part of the Andronovo culture during Bronze Age), was of west Eurasian origin (with mtDNA haplogroups such as U, H, HV, T, I and W), and that prior to the thirteenth-seventh century BC, all Kazakh samples belonged to European lineages

I have doubts myself that this is representitive, since it is likely it is just one family. I don't know if they looked similar in terms of phenotypes.

[thesunchild]

The thing is till today we dont know who these Aryans where which build Mitanni. I suppose it was the Gutians.

All what I know and what I need to know is that the original homeland of the proto-Aryans / Aryans are the Zagros Mountains.

[jjmuneer]

The thing is till today we dont know who these Aryans where which build Mitanni. I suppose it was the Gutians.

All what I know and what I need to know is that the original homeland of the proto-Aryans / Aryans are the Zagros Mountains.

Gutians probably were the early Iranic tribes settled in the Zagros. I believe in the Kurgan theory.

[jjmuneer]

I'm personally curious abou the appearence of the Gutians, in terms of phyiscal appearence. It is interesting to me.

[thesunchild]

Gutians probably were the early Iranic tribes settled in the Zagros. I believe in the Kurgan theory.

Kurgan theory is out dated, fake and rubbished; invented by a lesbian Lithuanian that said that Lithuania (the Baltics) is the centre of the universe.

The fact is that they’re only for bout 3 million residents in Lithuania and most of them are actually Finno-Ugric and that it’s impossible that Lithuanians are proto-Indo-Europeans.

Maykop folks influenced and Indo-Europised Yamnaya folks in the Steppes. Maykop folks were West Asian! The Steppes folks and folks in Europe were Indo-Europised by folks from West Asia.

[jjmuneer]

Gutians probably were the early Iranic tribes settled in the Zagros. I believe in the Kurgan theory.

Kurgan theory is out dated, fake and rubbished; invented by a lesbian Lithuanian that said that Lithuania (the Baltics) is the centre of the universe.

The fact is that they’re only for bout 3 million residents in Lithuania and most of them are actually Finno-Ugric and that it’s impossible that Lithuanians are proto-Indo-Europeans.

Maykop folks influenced and Indo-Europised Yamnaya folks in the Steppes. Maykop folks were West Asian! The Steppes folks and folks in Europe were Indo-Europised by folks from West Asia.

Outdated on the basis of what? Most scholars and historians agree on the Kurgan theory. The Indo-European homeland was somehwere around the Black sea, from Ukraine to Caspian sea. What the hell does Kurgan theory have to do with Lithuanians? They are Batlic people and speak indo-european language. Where did you get this info again? Lol are you sure yourr talking about Kurgan theory?

Again dates and places are very approximate: The Bell Beaker culture emerged almost 1000 years after Globular Amphora.

Although Indo-European languages do not enter the historical record until the 2nd millenium BC, one can infer, with some confidence, much of Indo-European geography by the third millenium. Most supporters of both the Gimbutas Kurgan Theory and Danubist or Anatolian hypotheses would agree that Usatovo culture can be tentatively identified with the first speakers of proto-Greek, and both theories usually identify Tocharian with the Afanasievo culture far to the East in Asia. Similarly the identifications of Indo-Iranian with Yamnaya, Balto-Slavic with Battle Axe, and Germanic with Corded Ware (see below) are not controversial. Most of the other identifications shown in the map might also be tentatively accepted by theorists on both sides of the Kurgan-Danubian debate.

In other words, many would agree that the Balkan-Pontic area of the 5th or 4th millenium BC was a locus for early Indo-European expansion; the debate is whether Tripolye ``converted'' the Kurgans to speak I-E, or vice versa! For most experts, the signs of Kurgan culture among the early Indo-European speakers are unmistakable. As just one example, the warrior heroes in Homer's Iliad are buried in Kurgans (though of course Homer doesn't use that Russian word).

The Kurgan theory if anything puts the indo-Iranians at the heart of everything.

[thesunchild]

Outdated on the basis of what? Most scholars and historians agree on the Kurgan theory. The Indo-European homeland was somehwere around the Black sea, from Ukraine to Caspian sea. What the hell does Kurgan theory have to do with Lithuanians? They are Batlic people and speak indo-european language. Where did you get this info again? Lol are you sure your talking about Kurgan theory?

Outdated on the basis of archeology and haplogroups. There aint no Y-DNA haplogroup I2a in Central Asia and India. And Y-DNA hg. I2a is native to Kurgan area. Also native R1a in Central Asia is NOT the same R1a as in Europe. If Proto- Indo-Europeans migrated from there they would take also hg. I2a, N1c1 and European R1a type with them. Baltic people are for about 50% N1c1 Finno-Ugric folks


read this: Afghanistan's Ethnic Groups Share a Y-Chromosomal Heritage Structured by Historical Events.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0034288



Maybe most REAL scolars agreed on the Kurgan theory 30 years ago, but not now. This is the most recent theory!

[jjmuneer]

Yes I know about the Anatolian theory.
What are you trying to get at with that article? That Afghans and Tajiks have high percentage of J2? Well it just proves my point that R1a1a was already in central asia and as you said there was migrations from anatolia region to central asia.
I2a2a is not indo-european, no one ever said that. Anyways there is I2 I think in Indian populations, but I can't find a smaple. I2 is probably native european, there is apprently meant to be a high percentage of I2a2a amongst N.Kurds. No one every said I2a2a is indo-european though.

You cannot denote a haplogroup to an entire culture, people mix, N1c1 is pretty high amongst Baltic peoples, but so is R1a1a etc.. You cannot say one haplogroup is aryan and anther isn't. What about J1? That is also native caucasian, but you seem to fail to mention that. Anyways there are plenty of burial sites in south Russia to prove the Kurgan theory, the Yamma culture is evidence of that. Surely if these indo-european tribes migrated out of Anatolia we would be the white boys of the Middle-east.
If you have any evidence for Anatolian theory tell me, if not then don't bother telling me about it, because I'm not going to change my mind.

Lets just stop arguing about which theory is correct, clearly we both have bias. You think Kurds are Nordic, I don't. Good day

[thesunchild]

Yes I know about the Anatolian theory.
What are you trying to get at with that article? That Afghans and Tajiks have high percentage of J2?

Lets just stop arguing about which theory is correct, clearly we both have bias. You think Kurds are Nordic, I don't. Good day

This article says that R1a in Central Asia is NOT the same as R1a in Europe and that European R1a didn't Indo-Europised native Central Asian population.

No I don't think that Kurds are Nordic. We're obviously not European, I'm not blind. On contrary, what I'm trying to say is that we have actually nothing to do with the Europeans.

[jjmuneer]

Yes I know about the Anatolian theory.
What are you trying to get at with that article? That Afghans and Tajiks have high percentage of J2?

Lets just stop arguing about which theory is correct, clearly we both have bias. You think Kurds are Nordic, I don't. Good day

This article says that R1a in Central Asia is NOT the same as R1a in Europe and that European R1a didn't Indo-Europised native Central Asian population.

No I don't think that Kurds are Nordic. We're obviously not European, I'm not blind. On contrary, what I'm trying to say is that we have actually nothing to do with the Europeans.

Ofcourse central Asian indo-Iranian R1a1a isn't the same as central, eastern european one. Just look at these two maps. The map isn't meant to be accurate, just a general idea.
I showed you this before: It shows that R1a1a has two types Eurasian and European type, both none the less related to the Indo-europeans.

This is the haplogroups map:


The only difference bewteen me and you is that we believe in opposite theories

Well in your posts it seemed like you were trying to suggest Kurds were the master race(proto-aryans). You were also saying how indo-europeans came from Kurdistan, trying to suggest that Europeans come from us. That is just me. You should know because you live in Europe if you say your Aryan you'd get laughed at, just forget this whole Aryan BS. Were Iranic, that is it.

[thesunchild]

Ofcourse central Asian indo-Iranian R1a1a isn't the same as central, eastern european one. Just look at these two maps. The map isn't meant to be accurate, just a general idea.
I showed you this before: It shows that R1a1a has two types Eurasian and European type, both none the less related to the Indo-europeans.

This is the haplogroups map:

BMAC dates max to 2300 BCE and Andronovo only max. 2100 BCE, while European R1a and Central Asian R1a separated many millennia before that. So European R1a has nothing to do with the so called ''Aryan" DNA.

So Andronovo got Aryanised by BMAC!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMAC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture

Well in your posts it seemed like you were trying to suggest Kurds were the master race(proto-aryans). You were also saying how indo-europeans came from Kurdistan, trying to suggest that Europeans come from us. That is just me. You should know because you live in Europe if you say your Aryan you'd get laughed at, just forget this whole Aryan BS. Were Iranic, that is it.

Huh? No, Europeans are just native to Europe. And Kurds are native to Kurdistan. They just got a language from West Asia, but their DNA didn’t changed that much.

Nobody is laughing at me when talking about my heritage and they do agree with me in real life.