Hypothetical Question for Kurdish People

[Kulka]

- afarin kaka gyan !!!!!

[Kulka]

Again your reply lacks a correct inference, by conflating to seperate things. I made a remark about the lack of civility and intellectuality that's being exercised in this discussion. Your alma mater is totally unrelevant when you start making insults, which I perceive as uncivilized. ,

A statement like: obvously a tremendous lack of civility and intellectuality suggests that the people discussing here are not civilized and are not intelligent and therefore the environment lacks the factors above, who are you trieng to fool?

they talking about themselves obviously

[Kulka]

here the example for what "crime" these "decent and civilized" creatures put humans in prison:

"One of those barred candidates is Leyla Zana. Twenty years ago Zana used Kurdish in parliament while taking the oath of office. She was later stripped of her parliamentary immunity and sent to prison on terrorism charges, where she remained behind bars for ten years (1994-2004)."

[Azamat]

Again your reply lacks a correct inference, by conflating to seperate things. I made a remark about the lack of civility and intellectuality that's being exercised in this discussion. Your alma mater is totally unrelevant when you start making insults, which I perceive as uncivilized. ,

A statement like: obvously a tremendous lack of civility and intellectuality suggests that the people discussing here are not civilized and are not intelligent and therefore the environment lacks the factors above, who are you trieng to fool?

My statement suggested that this environment lacks these factors because certain members unsufficiently exercise such intelligence and civility. If one of our acknowledged intellectuals like New Corduene or Saipul suddenly starts behaving like a total moron, what relevance has their education got?

I have not insulted you, or any other member, if you believe being called Turk is insulting that's not my problem.

When you called me a Turk, that was a clear attempt to exclude me from this nation. Being a proud and honest bearer of Kurdish identity, such a statement is utterly offensive.

[Kulka]

another example how decent and civilized they are:

"When will the Kurds get their justice for the nearly 3,000 Kurdish Towns, villages and hamlets that were burnt in SE Turkey by the Turkish Army?

The Turkish Army were at their height of burning Kurdish towns and villages when the world's media were in Bosnia!"

"Many people were shot in the streets as they ran for cover. Holes from millions of rounds ammunition peppered all the buildings and the minaret of the local mosque had a hole the size of a large car at the base.

Eye witness statements told of Land Rovers with small trailers on the back full of 'a chemical substance' which was being shovelled by soldiers onto the floors of shops, only to spontaneously combust into flames."

"The only house to be left standing was one that had a Turkish flag hanging in the garden. A young Kurdish pupil had been instructed by the Turkish teacher to take the flag home the previous day so as to wash and dry it. So it was hanging on the washing line. All the shops in the main street were gutted by fire."

what a decent nation!!! impresing!!!

[Kulka]

thats not "lack of civility":

"During the nineties over 4,000 Kurdish villages, towns and hamlets were destroyed like this. Always accompanied by the most barbaric human rights abuses carried out by the Turkish army. Killings, mutilations, rape, torture, humilation etc."

"Ten people were burnt alive in this room" a visiting UK trade union delegation were told when they visited the town less than one month after the atrocity. Local people say that over 100 people were brutally killed on 22nd and 23rd of October 1993 when the Turkish army razed Lice."

thats not fucking lack of civility!!! and these nits dare to come to kurdish forums and bark at us!!!!

[Azamat]

Kulka, quote me exactly where I have defended the Turkish state for such a policy. As you have extracted some of my vocabulary selections, your posts are clearly intended at refuting my statements.

[ideas]

My statement suggested that this environment lacks these factors because certain members unsufficiently exercise such intelligence and civility. If one of our acknowledged intellectuals like New Corduene or Saipul suddenly starts behaving like a total moron, what relevance has their education got?

Don't bring New Corduene into this, this is between me you and your alter ego, and you suggesting that the people that you are currently debating with lack intelligence and are not civilized which is offensive to several members here.

When you called me a Turk, that was a clear attempt to exclude me from this nation. Being a proud and honest bearer of Kurdish identity, such a statement is utterly offensive.

I'm entitled to my opinion and I believe that your a Turk, and why are you being racist? do you know that Baris is a Turk?

[Djembe]

@Djembe
But as this will most likely lead to war, federalism with Kurdish autonomy is for now probably the most achievable and practical solution. Though I doubt it will be like anything we're seeing today in Southern Kurdistan.

Azamet

OK, let us go back to the subject. In my opinion re-establishing second republic is the best solution for both Turkish and Kurdish side. Let us continue to be 'hypothetical' and what type of federalism we are talking about. As a strong supporter of Kurdish cultural, political rights within Turkey, here is my parameters.

1 - Education in Kurdish is a must. My concern is that, if a Kurdish child speaks only Kurdish language, that would be an issue in terms of integration, higher education and professionally. I chosen to live in Canada, my daughter is 4 years old, she speaks Turkish, English and some French, but to me in terms of her future English and French is priority. I had so much difficulty when I migrated to Canada due to lack of language skills, and even though having a degree, it was extremely difficult to settle and integrate to the society. I am all for Kurdish Education as a right for Kurdish people but at the same time, there should be mandatory courses for Kurdish children to learn the Turkish language. I am assuming you are a parent living in Europe or N. America. Don't you agree that the language is the key to integrate new generations to the society.

2. Cultural: There must be absolutely now restriction in terms of cultural life from having TV, Radio, newspaper etc. There are already booming private TV network in Turkey and I don't see any issue to have such freedom in media.

3. Government Services: Government services must have Kurdish when deliver the government services. Meaning if a Turkish living in Hakkari he or she should have all the services in Turkish, if a Kurd living in Edirne, he or she should receive all the services in Kurdish Language. De-centralization should re-organize all the government services and local autonomy should be established. Meaning key services like education, health, commercial, licencing, local security, local police, traffic should be under local government authority.

4. Local governments must have authority to tax.

5. Constitution: There should not be any reference to ethnicity when define citizenship and nationality.

What else?

[Kulka]

you defend one of them - acting on kurdish forum against Kurds - if you have brain - think now if anyone will believe that you have even one drop of kurdish blood in your body.
and also i didnt write that you defend anything - so stop to "copy' your other account methods of talking by twisting my posts.

[ideas]

Welcome to step four and five everyone!

4. Step four, Azamat argues with his European Turk for a while to establish that he does not agree with him and his nationalism stands.
5 Step five Azamat agrees with the European Turk as 'his statements make sense'

[Djembe]

I have not insulted you, or any other member, if you believe being called Turk is insulting that's not my problem.

The accusation of Azamet and I having the same person is an insult. You claim that we are cheating without any evidence!

[ideas]

I have not insulted you, or any other member, if you believe being called Turk is insulting that's not my problem.

The accusation of Azamet and I having the same person is an insult. You claim that we are cheating without any evidence!

You are the same person.

[Azamat]

My statement suggested that this environment lacks these factors because certain members unsufficiently exercise such intelligence and civility. If one of our acknowledged intellectuals like New Corduene or Saipul suddenly starts behaving like a total moron, what relevance has their education got?

Don't bring New Corduene into this, this is between me you and your alter ego,

I'm not interpositioning New Corduene in here at all. My attempt to use your frame of reference to put it into perspective seems to have failed, as your inference has failed again.

and you suggesting that the people that you are currently debating with lack intelligence and are not civilized which is offensive to several members here.

That's just a repetition of what you just said, without having provided a valid refutation of my post.

When you called me a Turk, that was a clear attempt to exclude me from this nation. Being a proud and honest bearer of Kurdish identity, such a statement is utterly offensive.

I'm entitled to my opinion and I believe that your a Turk, and why are you being racist? do you know that Baris is a Turk?

It's quite ironic that you argue that I should not resent a Turkish-aimed exclusion of being Kurdish, while you have repeatedly slammed me for making 'Turks more acceptable'.

[ideas]

I'm not interpositioning New Corduene in here at all. My attempt to use your frame of reference to put it into perspective seems to have failed, as your inference has failed again

Just becuase you say it has failed, doesn't mean it has. You are going over-board with this, and nothing you say will change my mind, I unlike you have not put my nationalism (for the same of argument let's say your a Kurd, even though your not) up for negotiation and the fact that you make statements like 'My views are changeable' and my previous posts are out-dated just shows that my accusations are true.

You have insulted several members here, and then think that you can get away with it by trieng to evade the ultimatum with constant argument, and the fact that you insult people by using sly ways like putting the insult in between the lines will not get passed me.

It's quite ironic that you argue that I should not resent a Turkish-aimed exclusion of being Kurdish, while you have repeatedly slammed me for making 'Turks more acceptable'.

If someone called me a Turk I would not be insulted, or at least I would not use that as the base of my argument. I slammed you for being a Turk that pretend to be a Kurd to spread propaganda, otherwise we've had Turks here before and I've been fine with it.