can palestinians speak arabic or study in arabic?

[dyaoko]

as I said palestinians dont even worth feeling Pitty for them...

because Evil Arabic ISlaimc IRanian medias are making too much Attention for them...and show their condition so much wrose than it really is...

in the way that they get attention from the world...everybody would think "oh poor palestinans...i bet they cant speak arabic in their land ..."

but thet truth is they have better condtion of life than other ppl of the region...
and the only reason for the bad thing that happens for them is themselves...they had many many chances to solve thir problem peacefully ...and live as a ocuntry beside "israele" like a friend in peace...
but they just want to Delete israel from the map...

if you can undrestand arabic, and look at arabic entertainment sites...you would find out how they like to live in Heyfa...

like they publish "PICTURES OF ARAB GIRLS IN HEYFA ! and arabs in israel..."

[Emmunah]

not all...just some...many good people caught up in that mess...i feel bad for any innocents caught in the middle. many very good palestinian people..and many good israeli people have died...buses blow up and kill all people, not just jewish.

oh...true, very true....living in haifa is very cool yes? everyone is dancing, (some) drinking and having fun the way all young people should have fun. you know...it's very modern and happy..too bad so many people want to mess it up.

[Diri]

Dilshad - the reason why I am saying that "in any case I would support Israel" - was actually well explained by Emunnah (good to hear from you again)...

ISRAEL IS JUSTIFIED! And those sorry suicide bombers don't even represent the Palestinians as a whole - although WE DO know that they have at least 30-40 % support of the people according to polls by the BBC...

I only wish that Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia could be HALF the democratic and freedom loving...

But one thing will be for ever true... Jews have a RIGHT to live there... And I am not talking about "They were promised the land" ... They went there in peace but they are met with violence... Damn people - can't they see that they are only making things worse for themselves? In their situation they have chances to gain for ever liberty and independence...

If Kurds were in that situation - they would have grabbed the chance - perhaps because they are happy with whatever they get (After all this oppression/prosecution/murder/war)?

[Dilsad]

I have friends from Palestine (occupied-territories) and Israel (arab israelis).
Now tell me Dyako, have you ever lived there? Or talked to people living there?
And you Emmunah, have you? Or have you only been to Kibuts and on the Israeli side.
Because if you only go to those places, sure Israel is a nice place, with beautifull houses and grden and roads.
But have you've gone to Gaza or the west bank? or the villages that are cut from the outside world and where you need passes to go out?

No Dyaoko, sorry if you feel angry against Iran or the arab countries in the middle east; believe me you are not alone; palestinians probably feel the same way you do.
But are you telling me that you don't feel bad for people under occupation?
If you seriously don't feel bad, so what is the difference between you and an Iranian, or a turk or an iraqi or a syrian nationalist?

In turkey:
"ah, those kurds, I don't feel bad for them, I mean at least in turkey we have a democracy, not like everywhere else in the middle east"
Iran:
"ah those kurds, what's wrong with them, I mean at least in Iran, we have the same history, we celebrate newroz together, we can even almost understand eachother, not like arabic or turkish"
Iraq:
"ah those kurds, I mean comeon, at least we recognise them as different group in iraq..."

you see what I mean...what you are saying sounds pretty much like that...
and at that point, kurdish nationalism is not better than any other form of nationalism...

D.d.

[dyaoko]

Dilsad it is diffrent...please dont compare kurds with Arabs.

Kurds are 40 million ppl ...and you cant compare them with Arabs in Palestine.
Kurdish strugle has been so much diffrent from arab's , and our goals has been diffrent from theirs.

palestinians probably feel the same way you do.

no unfrotunately no ...they MAY (1%) respect kruds , if they found those Kurds goood Muslems by their own idea...they have no respect for kurdish clture . (as there is Respect from Jews to Kurds for their hisory and for their culture...they celebrate the day that Kurdish King had librated them...they are gonna make the biggest building of the middle east in the name of a Mede King (Cyrus)... )

as I said, Palestinans recive ENOUGH (and even SO MUCH ) help and attention and propagenda from everybody in this world...and their propagenda even fulled kurdish ears....and ppl like you go for them.


I say "Palestinans" are getting enough help and attention form West world - arab world - Islamic world

there is no need that we kurds sell ourself for 2-3 million arabs .

the truth is , there is a very BIG potencial to make a VERY STONG allinence with Jews ...and we shouldnt destory our chance for these palestinans...that already recive what they want....

Brother , We kurds never nver never even SAW 3 Billion dolor in our dreams...but the wolrd -2 weeks ago- promised them to donatge 3 billion dolors to them...

arabs - muslems - Anti Jews- Neo Nazis...everybody is supporting these ppl and their condition of life is AT LEAST so so so much better than ours.

and they DO have the chacne to have their own state PEACEFULLY.
there is no need that we kruds feel pitty for them.

[Diri]

and at that point, kurdish nationalism is not better than any other form of nationalism...

Eeeemmm----> Not better than any other form of nationalism?(Makes no sense) I am sure you were very passionate when you wrote this

Well - Dilshad - I don't say that I don't support their NATIONAL demands... I don't respect their bomning... That's all...

And let me be the one that says - the fact that you have "Palestinian" friends... Well - that makes you also biased... And I can imagine that they exaggerate for the hell of it...

We know a Palestinian family - (I have said this before - but I am delighted to share it with you a million times more if necessary)

So we are sitting in our livingroom here at home and we watch the news together - on Kurdistan TV - Saddam had been thrown of his throne (funny word game) - and then the Palestinian woman says like "What are they doing these Kurds?" - which my father answers - "About what?" - and then she says "Are they out of their mind - it looks like they want to be independent - and that is never gonna happen!!!"... And then my sister and I got REALY angry... - Not to mention my mother who (when they had left) swore that "all damn Arabs are the same - They'll have their damn Palestine but they see all others as lesser humans..."

Can you imagine how diappoiting this was -these were "good" Arab friends... We had known them for 8 years...

I TOTALY AGREE WITH HER! (Not to be TOO prejudice... I know that there are good and bad people in all ethicities and religions... BUT COME ON - the BAD ARABS TOTALLY RUIN ALL FOR THE GOOD ONES!) (NOT TO MENTION THAT THEY KILL LITTLE JEWSIH BOYS AND GIRLS)

[Diri]

Oh - and Dyaoko... CYRUS was the FIRST King that was NOT MEDIAN... Well we know that his mother was Median Princes - but CYRUS's father was Persian... And he didn't conquer in the name of the Median empire... He was a "Pars"...

THEY SHOULD BUILD THE STATUE OF DIYAKO! THE FATHER OF THE MDEIAN EMPIRE - WHICH DESTROYED ASHÛR AND WHICH FREED ALL THE PEOPLES OF THE IRANIAN PLATEU AND ANATOLIA....

[Emmunah]

disad...answer is yes...but the palestinians say they have a state...and they say they have government...so if they have government then supposedly they provide for themselves. why israel has to give palestinians everything if they only want to kill them AND if they don't let the refugees in palestine vote in palestinian elections, and if they get money from everyone and don't use that money to make their country good, they use it for weapons to kill israel. my freinds, the arabs in israel, they don't want to live in palestinian place, they want to live in isreal cause they want to live under free laws.

back before arafat, the life was decent for people in gaza and jews and arabs took coffee together and music and dance..but then arafat took the money, caused problems yet everyone loved him cause they didn't believe he was stealing from them. now...where did that money go???? who has it now? CORRUPTION IS KEEPING THEM DOWN, AND THAT'S THE ARAB PROBLEM...ALWAYS SO MUCH CORRUPTION.

i just want all the people to get along...but you know..it takes both sides...and the israeli side has done a lot. now us say they give palestinians 3 billion a year...now i worry they use that money, and the new areas from withdrawal just to launch more rockets.

did you know in past 24 hours 60 qassem rockets launched at isreal? Why?

did you know that the militants say they still going to destroy israel? why give some one a place to set up missiles to launch to your country?

why did the palestinian say to destroy ALL The houses that the israelis leave behind? Why can't they live in them? now they want to destroy them and what they will live in? they will live in more shacks so then the UN will still think they are refugees...cause if they had those nice houses then no one would feel sorry for them anymore.

you know that the UAE and Britain tried to build apartment houses for residents in west bank town of jenin? Yes..in 2003...435 new apartments, and the terrorists shot at them until they left because if they had the nice apartments then the terrorists could not recruit more people from so much misery and they might not be considered "refugee"

It's awful! I want the good people to win...not those thugs!!!

Salaam/Shalom...PEACE...peace please in our lifetime!

sorry only have one hand at the moment.

[Dilsad]

Dyako,

all I have to tell you, is that after Halepce, and the first gulf war in 1991, when the US let Saddam's forces attacked our kurdish towns and villages.
A LOT of kurds went and escaped to Turkey...
The turks would say things like:

"ah look at these kurds, they do that so that the world feel sorry about them...and then in 91 after the non fly zone was created, they would say,...see see it worked, now they have a region protected by the US..."

Diri,

mhm...nationalism is based on once nationality/identity. It is a great tool when used in a national/popular uprising to unite people of different religious-social-class backgrounds/status even different ethnic background.
It can be a very bad thing when hijacked like in Nazi germany, turkey, syria, iran, iraq...
I prefere to identify with an absolute ideal such as justice, not only nationlism...because I prefere thinking that NO MATTER where a person is from, if that person is opressed, I will support her/him.
Even if the people that opresse them are from my own or from my own governement...

What about you Diri?
Imagine the year 2050, Kurdistan is liberated, and now the Dersimli/dimili people want their freedom and independant state becasue their freedom and rights are not protected under a kurmanj/soran governement.
Will you be supporting them? Or will you be the turk/arab/iranian of today? I know where I would stand! I would support them!!! Even if it means that I would be a treator to the eyes of NATIONALIST...

I know I am getting into abstract thoughts here...but for a sec, please try what I am describing below...and really try it...
What if tomorow you wake up and your mother tells you that in fact you are not a Kurd, but you are a persian!!!
How would you react? If your entire political awarness is purely based on nationalism...how would you deal with the fact that you are not a kurd but a persian/turk/arab?
If I wake up tomorow and my mother tells me:
"my son, we are in reality TURKS" I would still support the kurds, becasue I fight for justice,...not for nationalism only.


Emmunah,
Regardless of what the "palestinians" say (sound like you talked to every palestinians) about having or not a state...the reality is they don't.
YES ARAFAT was corrupt, I agree, let's move on. YES there is a lot of corruption in the PA...I agree, we don't need to debate on that.
This is the story of power/politics, ...wasn't sharon and sharon's son under investigation? Everywhere you have a concentration of power/politics, you will find opportunists.

Now, there are 4-5millions palestinians under occupation.
How many "terrorist, suicide-bombers" killed Israelis?
1000, 10000? I think much less than that. I'd rather look at the 4-5millions of palestinians living peacefully and not blowing themselves up, even after all the bombings/killings in Gaza/west bank, daily ummiliations, etc... Less than 1000, actually less than 100 palestinians blow themselve up in Israel in the past 50years!
Talk about a peacefull people.

NOW, I hear you and I am glad and happy that you too want PEACE. Like the 4-5 millions palestinians. But their need toi be JUSTICE...no justice, no peace? no? What do you think?

For instance, do you support the pullout from Gaza?


As for destroying the israelis settler houses,...well, Gaza is one of the most dense region in the world. I think GAza City is the most dense. So they need space, they need High rise building.
They need to build vertically, while the settlement were built horizintally.

I agree with you Emmunah, I WANT THE GOOD PEOPLE TO WIN...NOT THE THUGS...but there are thugs in all sides...I know where mine and the palestinians are...do you know were yours are? and who they are?

well said my friend:
Astixwazi/shalom/salaam,....

and Serkeftin...
Dd.

[Diri]

Diri,

mhm...nationalism is based on once nationality/identity. It is a great tool when used in a national/popular uprising to unite people of different religious-social-class backgrounds/status even different ethnic background.
It can be a very bad thing when hijacked like in Nazi germany, turkey, syria, iran, iraq...
I prefere to identify with an absolute ideal such as justice, not only nationlism...because I prefere thinking that NO MATTER where a person is from, if that person is opressed, I will support her/him.
Even if the people that opresse them are from my own or from my own governement...

What about you Diri?
Imagine the year 2050, Kurdistan is liberated, and now the Dersimli/dimili people want their freedom and independant state becasue their freedom and rights are not protected under a kurmanj/soran governement.
Will you be supporting them? Or will you be the turk/arab/iranian of today? I know where I would stand! I would support them!!! Even if it means that I would be a treator to the eyes of NATIONALIST...

I know I am getting into abstract thoughts here...but for a sec, please try what I am describing below...and really try it...
What if tomorow you wake up and your mother tells you that in fact you are not a Kurd, but you are a persian!!!
How would you react? If your entire political awarness is purely based on nationalism...how would you deal with the fact that you are not a kurd but a persian/turk/arab?
If I wake up tomorow and my mother tells me:
"my son, we are in reality TURKS" I would still support the kurds, becasue I fight for justice,...not for nationalism only.

Well said dear Dilshad - and just let me say that I ran of to their help before you did have a look at this: SCROLL UP http://northerniraq.info/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3278#3278

See- I have my back covered... And what I have decided would be the right thing to work for is autonomy for the Dimili and the Gorani...

But you see this?

you see what I mean...what you are saying sounds pretty much like that...
and at that point, kurdish nationalism is not better than any other form of nationalism...

I wasn't asking for the definition of nationalism - I was saying that what I have quoted here is MEANINGLESS - to say it is plain English... It is a paradox to say that "Kurdish nationalism isn't better than any other form of nationalism"... I believe they ALL have the SAME FORM... Am I right? (Just different faces - Kurdish/Turkish/Persian/Arab - and what is fanatical nationalism is called "fascism" - and if it developes into hate of other nationalities we call it "rascism" or in some cases "nazism")

But I totally understand what you are saying and I gave you my answer - as to "why I don't support justice" - and that is " I see that justice has been done upon the Palestinians - but that they are running from it"...

My sister jokes with me - she says "Haha - you were ajam - who my parents felt sorry for - so they picked you up from the street " - it's all fun - we make those jokes all the time - so I am used to the idea of waking up and my mother telling me I am a Arab/Persian or Turk... (Which would never happen by the way - all of my mother's brothers (my uncles(xal) and the other male in her family were Peshmergas and fought bravely... And my grandfather was killed in battle + many others uncles etc.)

So no dear Dilshad - THAT would NEVER happen unless GOD would want me to go through hell that is..

But you are an interesting conversationalist dear brother... You somehow always get my attention with your very un-orthodox theses and examples...


I WISH I would wake up one day - my mother telling me we were Turks/Persians/Arabs... Then at least I could go to some place and be "home"... If she said I was a Turk -I would definetly go to Mongolia

[Emmunah]

i broke my rule about not getting into the isr/pal debate....no one's mind is every changed. i am not a nationalist for every cause....i have a set of criteria, and maybe diri would be sweet cause i know he knows what i mean. mostly, i'm in favor of new nations that allow more freedoms for more people...and if not, no thanks...no maoist revolutions for this girl:)

but yes, i'm in favor of anything that would solve the pal/isr conflict that makes life better for all, not for only one side or the other...but i see slums in brazil, in zimbabwe, in congo, in philipines, in mexico, and i feel bad, but if their governments are going to steal all the aid money, what can be done? sometiems people have to stand up and say they are going to make it better, and not wait for anything.


this is why i rather have a kurdistan that is only the size of hong kong, but just as prosperous and modern than one the size of sudan, with horrible rulers and nothing going on but buzzard birds flying overhead to eat the dead there.

this is the independent nation of sealand....so some things can go too far



have a look! i'm not kidding....i wonder if loughborough university would give them a booth for international day

Go read the article....it's funny, but true:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealand

[doopaman]

You can't compare Kurds to the Palestinian, that a different issue. Most Israeli & the rest of the world suport a Palestinian State & they will have one, the question is will it lead to peace, will all Palestinian problems disappear when they finally have a state? remember one third of the world doesn't have an actual functioning state. If you think that they'll be perfect peace as in an absolute truce then that is not realistic. And if you believe that somehow they'll declare Palestine a country, and the Israelis and Hamas and the PFLP and al Aqsa etc will all link arms and trade baba ganoush recipies you're delusional. There is simply too big a gap between them and nearly all of the Palestinian self identity is founded in struggling against Israel. Without it, there is not much. So it's imperative to the Palestinians to maintain whatever radical differences, history, culture, mythology, hostilities they can in order to preserve what it is that makes them Palestinian. They will never get along. It will never happen. What is more likely and more plausible is for Israel and the Palestinians to enter into an extended cold peace with little or no interaction with one another. Deal with one another on unavoidable strategic issues like water development, ports and air travel. But in the meantime periodic abuses will continue like in the war of attrition, like in Iraq, like in Africa, like in other places in the world with unresolvable brush wars.

[Emmunah]

And if you believe that somehow they'll declare Palestine a country, and the Israelis and Hamas and the PFLP and al Aqsa etc will all link arms and trade baba ganoush recipies you're delusional.

OH MAN...I need some new recipes! quit dashing my hopes

They will never get along. It will never happen. What is more likely and more plausible is for Israel and the Palestinians to enter into an extended cold peace with little or no interaction with one another. Deal with one another on unavoidable strategic issues like water development, ports and air travel. But in the meantime periodic abuses will continue like in the war of attrition, like in Iraq, like in Africa, like in other places in the world with unresolvable brush wars.

Why? it worked before just fine...everything was fine...i just don't understand these comments....cause every day there are palestinians and israelis doing really cool things...and even the quran says that's the land for jews....so it can't be religious either. they just need to chill.

like this statement:
" We are working together for a reformed and revived Near East, and our two movements complete one another. The Jewish movement is national and not imperialist. Our movement is national and not imperialist, and there is room in Syria for us both. Indeed I think that neither can be a real success without the other."

Feisal Ibn Hussein, Emir of Hedjaz, king of Syria and Iraq, speaking about the meeting between he and Chaim Weitzman, Israel's first president. Date, March 3, 1919

people have to remember that the jews were invited there. who started all this? The same people that started all the trouble in iraq too....THESE PEOPLE:
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/timeline.htm

things were fine til the thugs in the above linked timeline got involved!

look...look here...nice dancing, sharing and loving. israeli/palestinan dance troupe:
http://www.salam-shalom.net





you know that 1/2 of the jews in israel come from arab/muslim countries? they are very close in many ways.

[Dilsad]

Hi Emmunah,

I do share with you your hope that Palestinian and Israelis can live in peace.
Only thing Israel has to do is to leave the occupied territories and go back to the 1967 lines, which includes east jerusalem as well.
That is all the palestinians are asking, of course with the right of return.

Again, look at the millions of palestinians and israelis living already in peace side by side! The only thing we now need is some politicians that have a LONG term vision...not just a short term...

D...

[Diri]

hmmm Dilshad... No comment to my post? How should I take that?