Kurds are Fathers of Iran

[Diri]

What do you mean EXACT same people... The Medes and Persians were NOT the EXACT same people...

They wouldn't be called by different names if they were the EXACT same people for starters (even a child knows this)...

Although both Aryans, they mixed with different people... The Kurds are a result of not only Medes - we have more ancient roots going back milleniums before the Medes arrived...

It's like YOU - who has a Kurdish father... Your Kurdish father's forefathers used to live in Sulêmanî - but your father and his family was based in Sine... Then you were born of a Persian mother (probably) and on both sides of your family you probably had some other ethnicities (Azeri etc.) - and thus you are no longer a Kurd-Kurd... You are an Iranian... A mix of Aryan peoples...

So my analogy is; just like the new generations of Kurds are KURDS and not MEDES - so you are not a KURD but an IRANIAN...

Do you speak Kurdish, Barzan? Just wondering...

[Gudea]

Anyway today no one can deny that Persians and Kurds are closer to eachother than they are to Arabs or Turks respectively.
But I dont think ancient history (or similar ethnic elements) is very important in determining modern politics. People decide their policy according to their interests.

although, Iran and Iranianness is part of Persian nationalism, like Iraq is for sunni arabs of Iraq.

Since 2000 and 2003 the Kurdish movement of Iran has become more radical and have turned to what we can actually call separatism. this has its own reasons. An important reason being losing all of their hopes of being with Iran and being treated as equal citizens.
I think if Iranian nationalist (Persian) movementS (plural) warantee equality for Kurds, then Kurds can consider it as an alternative in their policy for their future.

[Gudea]

What do you mean EXACT same people... The Medes and Persians were NOT the EXACT same people...

They wouldn't be called by different names if they were the EXACT same people for starters (even a child knows this)...

Although both Aryans, they mixed with different people... The Kurds are a result of not only Medes - we have more ancient roots going back milleniums before the Medes arrived...

It's like YOU - who has a Kurdish father... Your Kurdish father's forefathers used to live in Sulêmanî - but your father and his family was based in Sine... Then you were born of a Persian mother (probably) and on both sides of your family you probably had some other ethnicities (Azeri etc.) - and thus you are no longer a Kurd-Kurd... You are an Iranian... A mix of Aryan peoples...

So my analogy is; just like the new generations of Kurds are KURDS and not MEDES - so you are not a KURD but an IRANIAN...

Do you speak Kurdish, Barzan? Just wondering...

This is not important that he is Kurdish or not, the important point is that he speaks as a Persian nationalist with some Kurdish nationalists/activists.
Besides his name is not Barzan, but ArioBarzan (AryoBerzen) 'an Iranian ruler', which is totally different with the Kurdish Barzan which was a Hurrian god's name.

[Ariobarzan]

What do you mean EXACT same people... The Medes and Persians were NOT the EXACT same people...

They wouldn't be called by different names if they were the EXACT same people for starters (even a child knows this)...

Although both Aryans, they mixed with different people... The Kurds are a result of not only Medes - we have more ancient roots going back milleniums before the Medes arrived...

It's like YOU - who has a Kurdish father... Your Kurdish father's forefathers used to live in Sulêmanî - but your father and his family was based in Sine... Then you were born of a Persian mother (probably) and on both sides of your family you probably had some other ethnicities (Azeri etc.) - and thus you are no longer a Kurd-Kurd... You are an Iranian... A mix of Aryan peoples...

So my analogy is; just like the new generations of Kurds are KURDS and not MEDES - so you are not a KURD but an IRANIAN...

Do you speak Kurdish, Barzan? Just wondering...

Again: "......Around 1200 BC, some new people invaded West Asia from the north. These people were called the Persians and the Medes. Both of them were Indo-European people, distantly related to the Hittites, the Greeks and the Romans......"


Again: the reason they were called Persians and Medes was the geographical area in which they decided to settle thats it, so if one says they are EXACTLY the same people now (the Persian and the Kurd or the Persian and the Medes) one would be wrong but if one says they WERE exactly the same people one would absolutely be right because they invaded Iran as ONE : some decided to go Zagros, some decided not to. thats it.

With Kurds not being all Medes and had a history going way back before that, I have a problem. Ofcourse there were natives living in Zagros where Medes settled and inland were Persians settled but the overwhelming settling of the Aryan people created their new identity. Or else Persians can also say Iran had a history way before Aryans arrived (which they did) so we are not just Persian, ofcourse technically that would true with almost every nation but Medes overwhelmingly define Kurds.


The rest of your post : points well taken. yes nations and people change all the time, like myself as a person or Kurds as a people, however we shall never forget and worse yet deny our roots.

I understand Horrami and Jaafi , but unfortunately do not speak them very well.

[Diri]

Anyway today no one can deny that Persians and Kurds are closer to eachother than they are to Arabs or Turks respectively.
But I dont think ancient history (or similar ethnic elements) is very important in determining modern politics. People decide their policy according to their interests.

although, Iran and Iranianness is part of Persian nationalism, like Iraq is for sunni arabs of Iraq.

Since 2000 and 2003 the Kurdish movement of Iran has become more radical and have turned to what we can actually call separatism. this has its own reasons. An important reason being losing all of their hopes of being with Iran and being treated as equal citizens.
I think if Iranian nationalist (Persian) movementS (plural) warantee equality for Kurds, then Kurds can consider it as an alternative in their policy for their future.

Naturally nowawadys it's nationalism roaming the lands... Loyalty to ones own people... History is history as you say...

So I see your point with "interests"... And I too like most Kurds know that Persians are far closer to us than Arabs or Turks... That's just a fact... It doesn't dictate anything...

[Diri]

What do you mean EXACT same people... The Medes and Persians were NOT the EXACT same people...

They wouldn't be called by different names if they were the EXACT same people for starters (even a child knows this)...

Although both Aryans, they mixed with different people... The Kurds are a result of not only Medes - we have more ancient roots going back milleniums before the Medes arrived...

It's like YOU - who has a Kurdish father... Your Kurdish father's forefathers used to live in Sulêmanî - but your father and his family was based in Sine... Then you were born of a Persian mother (probably) and on both sides of your family you probably had some other ethnicities (Azeri etc.) - and thus you are no longer a Kurd-Kurd... You are an Iranian... A mix of Aryan peoples...

So my analogy is; just like the new generations of Kurds are KURDS and not MEDES - so you are not a KURD but an IRANIAN...

Do you speak Kurdish, Barzan? Just wondering...

This is not important that he is Kurdish or not, the important point is that he speaks as a Persian nationalist with some Kurdish nationalists/activists.
Besides his name is not Barzan, but ArioBarzan (AryoBerzen) 'an Iranian ruler', which is totally different with the Kurdish Barzan which was a Hurrian god's name.

Gudea - I was making an analogy... The important part wasn't what he is... I used his lineage to show that Kurds also have a lineage... And I never said he is Kurdish... He thinks simply his father being a Kurd automatically makes him a Kurd too... But it's not quite that simple.

And as for his username - I used the last part of his username (quite randomly) to not write all of it everytime...

I am well aware of the the Persian way of writing in Latin script - how they use the English sounds...

[Gudea]

What you mean by ''But it's not quite that simple.'' ??
Mustefa Barzani says, every one who feels he/she is a Kurd, then he/she is a Kurd.

[Diri]

:? What you mean by ''But it's not quite that simple.'' ??
Mustefa Barzani says, every one who feels he/she is a Kurd, then he/she is a Kurd.

Yes - that is the point... Call it "Hard" if you like... But it's not just; "my father was Kurdish so I am Kurdish too" - although he speaks as a nationalist Persian...

To be Kurdish you have to have Kurdish nationalism... Therefore there can be Assyrians, Persians, Turkmens etc. brought up with Kurdish nationalism - and believe they are Kurds (even if their father/mother was Assyrian/Persian/Turkmen etc.)... It's as Mustefa Barzanî said...

[Ariobarzan]

Anyway today no one can deny that Persians and Kurds are closer to eachother than they are to Arabs or Turks respectively

. Thank YOU

But I dont think ancient history (or similar ethnic elements) is very important in determining modern politics. People decide their policy according to their interests.

Firstly it is in my opinion, of great interest for us (kurds, I am still going to consider myself kurd eventhough Diri has declared me to be not) to be part of a future federalist Iranic nation which has the potentioal to be a superpower rather than be a totally seperate country away from our kins. Secondly, history and ethnicity is very important in creating a country, you think not?? look at former Yogoslavia it was against their interest to seperate however lingering history which always affects nations blew it up. as different ethnicities forced to be with eachother will ruin a nation on the other side of the token same history and ethnicity makes a new nation flourish and gives them identity which in turn gives them strength. the world is getting smaller, political science tells us that there will be one day regions and not countries, and one day in further future there will be no regions either just the world as a whole this is the overall trend as we see in European union (the exceptions of Yoguslavia, USSR, kosovo... are exceptions to the overall long term trend because these countries had HISTORICAL problems and as my political science professor told me once when I posed the same question regarding these exceptoins : sometimes we have to take a step back in order to take 2 forward) so yes one day maybe in a distant future we will have one Arab nation and one europe and one ... so why not consider one Iranic nation starting sooner than later to be ahead of the world put simply.

Since 2000 and 2003 the Kurdish movement of Iran has become more radical and have turned to what we can actually call separatism.

I am in close contact with people involved in the democratic Kurd movements in Iran all of their slogans are for federalism until now


you said: I think if Iranian nationalist (Persian) movementS (plural) warantee equality for Kurds, then Kurds can consider it as an alternative in their policy for their future.

[quote]

Not only they warantee it they want and expect Kurds to be the leaders in a new Iranic federal.

[Diri]

Firstly it is in my opinion, of great interest for us (kurds, I am still going to consider myself kurd eventhough Diri has declared me to be not) to be part of a future federalist Iranic nation which has the potentioal to be a superpower rather than be a totally seperate country away from our kins.

It is not I who doesn't consider you Kurdish... It is your own luring self;

Or else Persians can also say Iran had a history way before Aryans arrived (which they did) so we are not just Persian, ofcourse technically that would true with almost every nation but Medes overwhelmingly define Kurds.

So as you see, I only went by your presentation of your ideas and yourself...

[Ariobarzan]

Firstly it is in my opinion, of great interest for us (kurds, I am still going to consider myself kurd eventhough Diri has declared me to be not) to be part of a future federalist Iranic nation which has the potentioal to be a superpower rather than be a totally seperate country away from our kins.

It is not I who doesn't consider you Kurdish... It is your own luring self;

Or else Persians can also say Iran had a history way before Aryans arrived (which they did) so we are not just Persian, ofcourse technically that would true with almost every nation but Medes overwhelmingly define Kurds.

So as you see, I only went by your presentation of your ideas and yourself...

Ofcourse I consider myself Persian my mom is Persian.

Ofcourse I consider myself Kurdish, my father is Kurdish.

And as you may have found out by now, I don't feel the need to choose one because history tells me they are one.

But most of all I consider myself of pure 100% Iranic Blood.

[Diri]

Firstly it is in my opinion, of great interest for us (kurds, I am still going to consider myself kurd eventhough Diri has declared me to be not) to be part of a future federalist Iranic nation which has the potentioal to be a superpower rather than be a totally seperate country away from our kins.

It is not I who doesn't consider you Kurdish... It is your own luring self;

Or else Persians can also say Iran had a history way before Aryans arrived (which they did) so we are not just Persian, ofcourse technically that would true with almost every nation but Medes overwhelmingly define Kurds.

So as you see, I only went by your presentation of your ideas and yourself...

Ofcourse I consider myself Persian my mom is Persian.

Ofcourse I consider myself Kurdish, my father is Kurdish.

And as you may have found out by now, I don't feel the need to choose one because history tells me they are one.

But most of all I consider myself of pure 100% Iranic Blood.

To me you are, as I have stated too many times; Iranian... SIMPLY! You are not Kurdish in mind - only in blood... In your mind you are Iranian... that is the impression I have gotten...

It's not about choosing one of them... It's about acting like one of them... You act like none of them - although if I had to "choose" which one you act the more like, it would be PERSIAN... Because you speak like one...

You don't feel like choosing one because history tells you we are one? That type of history is useless...
It's ANACHRONISM - you're taking ANCIENT events (or facts) and putting your Iranian nationalist thoughts into it...

[Ariobarzan]

Firstly it is in my opinion, of great interest for us (kurds, I am still going to consider myself kurd eventhough Diri has declared me to be not) to be part of a future federalist Iranic nation which has the potentioal to be a superpower rather than be a totally seperate country away from our kins.

It is not I who doesn't consider you Kurdish... It is your own luring self;

Or else Persians can also say Iran had a history way before Aryans arrived (which they did) so we are not just Persian, ofcourse technically that would true with almost every nation but Medes overwhelmingly define Kurds.

So as you see, I only went by your presentation of your ideas and yourself...

Ofcourse I consider myself Persian my mom is Persian.

Ofcourse I consider myself Kurdish, my father is Kurdish.

And as you may have found out by now, I don't feel the need to choose one because history tells me they are one.

But most of all I consider myself of pure 100% Iranic Blood.

It's about acting like one of them... You act like none of them - although if I had to "choose" which one you act the more like, it would be PERSIAN... Because you speak like one...

This is just pure non-sense. A Kurd can act like whatever he wants to act like but he is still a kurd. Now others may lable him a crazy kurd, a non-nationalistic kurd, a traitor kurd, or a nuttcase kurd. But he is still a Kurd.

Is there a hidden Kurd guidline book that we refer to in order to learn how to act to be considered a Kurd. And who are you to be the Grand Judge on wheather I act and speak in a way so you can stamp me as a kurd. A persian can act anyway he wants , can promote his identity or not, can even act like a Turk , but if he has Persian dad or mom or both he is Persian or partly so, he may be a bad Persian which is still a subjective matter, but he is Persian.

Do all Kurds have to preach about seperatism every time they open their mouths to be considered a Kurd?? A Kurd can have any opinion he wants, anywhere from wanting to have a seperate country to wanting to stay as second class citizen in Turkey until eternity, anywhere on this spectrum his opinions fall, they fall. you may not like his opinion , or his talk, or his "ACTING" but he is still a Kurd.

I as a Kurd think the best thing for MY PEOPLE are to stay close to the Iranic ties and form a federal with them. thats my opinion , thats the way I'll talk and "ACT" but as Barzani has apparently said as long I feel Kurd and have Kurdish name and blood I am a Kurd no matter what I think is the best for my people's future, and I ai'nt waiting for a kid to dictate to me how to act to be considered a Kurd by him. I could care less.

If a Persian comes and says I piss all over Cyrus 's grave and the hell with Iran blah blah blah , they are not in my opinion wise Persians but they are Persians. Much like the Iran regime : they hate Persian identity and history, they "ACT" much more like arabs and..... but hey they are still Iranian and Persian.

ArioBarzan

[Parsi]

Kurds and Persians are not one. They have many similarities in their cultures due to their long history together but also have many differences.

Just like the Persians mixed with the Elamites and adopted many of their cultural traits, the Medes mixed with the Hurrains, particularly the Manneans, and incoporated many of their cultural traits into their own culture as well. So you see, even in ancient times the Persians and Medes had their differences. We cannot, however, ignore their kinship and closeness as well. It is proven from Persepolis reliefs that they were the closest people in the empire.

Even amongst Persians there is cultural differences and similarities. You can't say that a Tajik and a Persian from Iran are the same people either. While both are descendents of Aryans (Mede, Persian, Bactrian, Sogdian, and Scythian), Tajik culture is mixed with Mongoloid while Persians of Iran have Arab and Turk culture intermixed into their own. And location affects culture as well. Tajiks are sourrounded by mountains, thus their food is different, while Irani Persians have a variety of landscapes which shapes their food culture.

We need to focus on our similarities but not deny our differences either. Our similarities unify us, while our differences make us unique.

Imagine how boring Aryans would be if everyone was 100% Persian, Azari, Baloch or Kurd.

[Diri]

Kurds and Persians are not one. They have many similarities in their cultures due to their long history together but also have many differences.

Just like the Persians mixed with the Elamites and adopted many of their cultural traits, the Medes mixed with the Hurrains, particularly the Manneans, and incoporated many of their cultural traits into their own culture as well. So you see, even in ancient times the Persians and Medes had their differences. We cannot, however, ignore their kinship and closeness as well. It is proven from Persepolis reliefs that they were the closest people in the empire.

Even amongst Persians there is cultural differences and similarities. You can't say that a Tajik and a Persian from Iran are the same people either. While both are descendents of Aryans (Mede, Persian, Bactrian, Sogdian, and Scythian), Tajik culture is mixed with Mongoloid while Persians of Iran have Arab and Turk culture intermixed into their own. And location affects culture as well. Tajiks are sourrounded by mountains, thus their food is different, while Irani Persians have a variety of landscapes which shapes their food culture.

We need to focus on our similarities but not deny our differences either. Our similarities unify us, while our differences make us unique.

Imagine how boring Aryans would be if everyone was 100% Persian, Azari, Baloch or Kurd.

Amîn... Dest xosh birayê min...