Kurds are Fathers of Iran

[Ariobarzan]

Kurds and Persians are not one. They have many similarities in their cultures due to their long history together but also have many differences.

Just like the Persians mixed with the Elamites and adopted many of their cultural traits, the Medes mixed with the Hurrains, particularly the Manneans, and incoporated many of their cultural traits into their own culture as well. So you see, even in ancient times the Persians and Medes had their differences. We cannot, however, ignore their kinship and closeness as well. It is proven from Persepolis reliefs that they were the closest people in the empire.

Even amongst Persians there is cultural differences and similarities. You can't say that a Tajik and a Persian from Iran are the same people either. While both are descendents of Aryans (Mede, Persian, Bactrian, Sogdian, and Scythian), Tajik culture is mixed with Mongoloid while Persians of Iran have Arab and Turk culture intermixed into their own. And location affects culture as well. Tajiks are sourrounded by mountains, thus their food is different, while Irani Persians have a variety of landscapes which shapes their food culture.

We need to focus on our similarities but not deny our differences either. Our similarities unify us, while our differences make us unique.

Imagine how boring Aryans would be if everyone was 100% Persian, Azari, Baloch or Kurd.

well said. This is why a Federalist Country would be perfect as I mentioned they will have enough autonomy to celebrate the differences, but would be under the same flag due to all the similarities. strong and united.


In Germany, Bavarians are very different from Prussans from ..... different but share the same Germanic heritage. This is what Federalist want for Iran.

[Diri]

Oh and Ariobarzan ----> you as a half-breed do not have the luxery of being a "bad Kurd" or "nutty/crazy Kurd"... Your mother is Persian, remember?

And you demanding "your people" to be part of Iran, is not Kurdish at all - it's Iranian...

ERGO - for the umpteenth time; You are IRANIAN not Kurdish...

Being Iranian means accepting different ethnicities within the Iranian nation, YES, but it doesn't mean accepting different IDENTITIES - because "Mâ hame Irani hastim" - "We are all Iranians"...

Being KURDISH means having a Kurdish IDENTITY... You don't have that... It is PART of your identity (I am not saying it's not) but it's not your sole identity... Before being a Kurd [on your fathers side might I add] or a Persian [on your mothers side] your mind is drenched in "Iranian Identity"...

Call yourself whatever you like [we have freedom of speech, remember?], I simply expressed my oppinion...

[Gudea]

Oh and Ariobarzan ----> you as a half-breed do not have the luxery of being a "bad Kurd" or "nutty/crazy Kurd"... Your mother is Persian, remember?

And you demanding "your people" to be part of Iran, is not Kurdish at all - it's Iranian...

ERGO - for the umpteenth time; You are IRANIAN not Kurdish...

Being Iranian means accepting different ethnicities within the Iranian nation, YES, but it doesn't mean accepting different IDENTITIES - because "Mâ hame Irani hastim" - "We are all Iranians"...

Being KURDISH means having a Kurdish IDENTITY... You don't have that... It is PART of your identity (I am not saying it's not) but it's not your sole identity... Before being a Kurd [on your fathers side might I add] or a Persian [on your mothers side] your mind is drenched in "Iranian Identity"...

Call yourself whatever you like [we have freedom of speech, remember?], I simply expressed my oppinion...

Sorry to interfere, but I disliked this comment.

remember one thing: you are mixing two things: Kurds dislike the ''Iranian policy of 20th century'' against them , but it does not mean Kurds have also problem with those Iranians who oppose that chauvunistic policy.
I dont remember ever Iranian nationalists tolerated any equality for Kurds, but considering the changes in the middle east, they are changing their strategy and reshaping themselves. one can easily feel that.
Remember that we as Kurds, welcome any change in the political structure of middle east, be through military liberation as in Iraq or reforms as in Neo-Mongolic turkey.

[Diri]

Oh and Ariobarzan ----> you as a half-breed do not have the luxery of being a "bad Kurd" or "nutty/crazy Kurd"... Your mother is Persian, remember?

And you demanding "your people" to be part of Iran, is not Kurdish at all - it's Iranian...

ERGO - for the umpteenth time; You are IRANIAN not Kurdish...

Being Iranian means accepting different ethnicities within the Iranian nation, YES, but it doesn't mean accepting different IDENTITIES - because "Mâ hame Irani hastim" - "We are all Iranians"...

Being KURDISH means having a Kurdish IDENTITY... You don't have that... It is PART of your identity (I am not saying it's not) but it's not your sole identity... Before being a Kurd [on your fathers side might I add] or a Persian [on your mothers side] your mind is drenched in "Iranian Identity"...

Call yourself whatever you like [we have freedom of speech, remember?], I simply expressed my oppinion...

Sorry to interfere, but I disliked this comment.

remember one thing: you are mixing two things: Kurds dislike the ''Iranian policy of 20th century'' against them , but it does not mean Kurds have also problem with those Iranians who oppose that chauvunistic policy.
I dont remember ever Iranian nationalists tolerated any equality for Kurds, but considering the changes in the middle east, they are changing their strategy and reshaping themselves. one can esily feel that.
Remember that we as Kurds, welcome any change in the political structure of middle east, be through military liberation (as in Iraq) or reforms, as in Neo-Mongolic turkey.

Guess what - I disliked your comment even more... ":oops:" ( )

Are you gonna teach me that NOW? Gudea - look at my actions and then come and tell me that we don't dislike Iranians who oppose "that chauvunistic policy"... For God's sake I am even friends (my best friend) with a Persian who says Kurds are PERSIANS!!! I think I know very well who I am and what others are and also how to act...

But thank you for your "humble" advice... [Refering to your "sorry" and that cute smiley going all red in blushing... ]

Just look at my actions (what I write) and why exactly I invited both Arashi and Parsi to Roj Bash Kurdistan... Which says a lot about me...

Will you be more specific - what exactly is that you don't like, Gudea?

The fact that Ariobarzan is Iranian...?

[Gudea]

Oh and Ariobarzan ----> you as a half-breed do not have the luxery of being a "bad Kurd" or "nutty/crazy Kurd"... Your mother is Persian, remember?

And you demanding "your people" to be part of Iran, is not Kurdish at all - it's Iranian...

ERGO - for the umpteenth time; You are IRANIAN not Kurdish...

Being Iranian means accepting different ethnicities within the Iranian nation, YES, but it doesn't mean accepting different IDENTITIES - because "Mâ hame Irani hastim" - "We are all Iranians"...

Being KURDISH means having a Kurdish IDENTITY... You don't have that... It is PART of your identity (I am not saying it's not) but it's not your sole identity... Before being a Kurd [on your fathers side might I add] or a Persian [on your mothers side] your mind is drenched in "Iranian Identity"...

Call yourself whatever you like [we have freedom of speech, remember?], I simply expressed my oppinion...

Sorry to interfere, but I disliked this comment.

remember one thing: you are mixing two things: Kurds dislike the ''Iranian policy of 20th century'' against them , but it does not mean Kurds have also problem with those Iranians who oppose that chauvunistic policy.
I dont remember ever Iranian nationalists tolerated any equality for Kurds, but considering the changes in the middle east, they are changing their strategy and reshaping themselves. one can esily feel that.
Remember that we as Kurds, welcome any change in the political structure of middle east, be through military liberation (as in Iraq) or reforms, as in Neo-Mongolic turkey.

Guess what - I disliked your comment even more... ":oops:" ( )

Are you gonna teach me that NOW? Gudea - look at my actions and then come and tell me that we don't dislike Iranians who oppose "that chauvunistic policy"... For God's sake I am even friends (my best friend) with a Persian who says Kurds are PERSIANS!!! I think I know very well who I am and what others are and also how to act...

But thank you for your "humble" advice... [Refering to your "sorry" and that cute smiley going all red in blushing... ]

Just look at my actions (what I write) and why exactly I invited both Arashi and Parsi to Roj Bash Kurdistan... Which says a lot about me...

Will you be more specific - what exactly is that you don't like, Gudea?

The fact that Ariobarzan is Iranian...?

I'm not going to decide whether he cant be considered a Kurd or not. I'm even not talking about this. This is not important whether X or Y is ethnically Z or W. The important fact is that he speaks from a Persian/Iranian nationalistic point of view. A Persian/Iranian standpoint.
(again, it is not important whether he is a Kurd or not, although i never seen a kurd supporting Iranian/Persian nationalism). You try to regard to the discussion as a discussion between some Kurds and some (non-Kurds or Persians/Iranians). while I see it as a discussion between Kurdish activists and/or Kurdish nationalists with Iranian/Persian nationalists.
And i'm not very novice as u may think.

[Diri]

Oh and Ariobarzan ----> you as a half-breed do not have the luxery of being a "bad Kurd" or "nutty/crazy Kurd"... Your mother is Persian, remember?

And you demanding "your people" to be part of Iran, is not Kurdish at all - it's Iranian...

ERGO - for the umpteenth time; You are IRANIAN not Kurdish...

Being Iranian means accepting different ethnicities within the Iranian nation, YES, but it doesn't mean accepting different IDENTITIES - because "Mâ hame Irani hastim" - "We are all Iranians"...

Being KURDISH means having a Kurdish IDENTITY... You don't have that... It is PART of your identity (I am not saying it's not) but it's not your sole identity... Before being a Kurd [on your fathers side might I add] or a Persian [on your mothers side] your mind is drenched in "Iranian Identity"...

Call yourself whatever you like [we have freedom of speech, remember?], I simply expressed my oppinion...

Sorry to interfere, but I disliked this comment.

remember one thing: you are mixing two things: Kurds dislike the ''Iranian policy of 20th century'' against them , but it does not mean Kurds have also problem with those Iranians who oppose that chauvunistic policy.
I dont remember ever Iranian nationalists tolerated any equality for Kurds, but considering the changes in the middle east, they are changing their strategy and reshaping themselves. one can esily feel that.
Remember that we as Kurds, welcome any change in the political structure of middle east, be through military liberation (as in Iraq) or reforms, as in Neo-Mongolic turkey.

Guess what - I disliked your comment even more... ":oops:" ( )

Are you gonna teach me that NOW? Gudea - look at my actions and then come and tell me that we don't dislike Iranians who oppose "that chauvunistic policy"... For God's sake I am even friends (my best friend) with a Persian who says Kurds are PERSIANS!!! I think I know very well who I am and what others are and also how to act...

But thank you for your "humble" advice... [Refering to your "sorry" and that cute smiley going all red in blushing... ]

Just look at my actions (what I write) and why exactly I invited both Arashi and Parsi to Roj Bash Kurdistan... Which says a lot about me...

Will you be more specific - what exactly is that you don't like, Gudea?

The fact that Ariobarzan is Iranian...?

I'm not going to decide whether he cant be considered a Kurd or not. I'm even not talking about this. This is not important whether X or Y is ethnically Z or W. The important fact is that he speaks from a Persian/Iranian nationalistic point of view. A Persian/Iranian standpoint.
(again, it is not important whether he is a Kurd or not, although i never seen a kurd supporting Iranian/Persian nationalism). You try to regard to the discussion as a discussion between some Kurds and some (non-Kurds or Persians/Iranians). while I see it as a discussion between Kurdish activists and/or Kurdish nationalists with Iranian/Persian nationalists.
And i'm not very novice as u may think.

Yes - so we agree... With most of it...

But I think you've misunderstood my point of view... I don't "try to regard to the discussion as a discussion between some Kurds and some (non-Kurds or Persians/Iranians)". I, like you "see it as a discussion between Kurdish activists and/or Kurdish nationalists with Iranian/Persian nationalists."

To be precise; I see it as discussion between persons with a Kurdish identity and persons with an Iranian identity. Being Iranian doesn't mean he can't be a Persian or that he can't be a Kurd too - it simply means that Iran comes before his Kurdishness and Persianness ----> Which would mean, his Kurdish and Persianness would merely be ethnic and cultural identities... Not National identity...

Because THAT is what's at hand here; we are talking about National identities... He thinks he can be an Iranian national and at the same time a Kurdish national...

No sir, that is impossible - those are at times opposite, but not 100% compatible... Whereas a Kurdish national can separate from Iran, an Iranian national cannot...

That is why I am discussing with him wether or not he can call himself a worthy Kurd... In my oppinion, in according with the proof presented in my logical step by step explenation; He cannot be both a Kurdish national AND an Iranian national at the same time...

[Diri]

Big PS;

No no... I don't consider you "novice", my brother...

It was but a little miscommunicado...

[Gudea]

Oh and Ariobarzan ----> you as a half-breed do not have the luxery of being a "bad Kurd" or "nutty/crazy Kurd"... Your mother is Persian, remember?

And you demanding "your people" to be part of Iran, is not Kurdish at all - it's Iranian...

ERGO - for the umpteenth time; You are IRANIAN not Kurdish...

Being Iranian means accepting different ethnicities within the Iranian nation, YES, but it doesn't mean accepting different IDENTITIES - because "Mâ hame Irani hastim" - "We are all Iranians"...

Being KURDISH means having a Kurdish IDENTITY... You don't have that... It is PART of your identity (I am not saying it's not) but it's not your sole identity... Before being a Kurd [on your fathers side might I add] or a Persian [on your mothers side] your mind is drenched in "Iranian Identity"...

Call yourself whatever you like [we have freedom of speech, remember?], I simply expressed my oppinion...

Sorry to interfere, but I disliked this comment.

remember one thing: you are mixing two things: Kurds dislike the ''Iranian policy of 20th century'' against them , but it does not mean Kurds have also problem with those Iranians who oppose that chauvunistic policy.
I dont remember ever Iranian nationalists tolerated any equality for Kurds, but considering the changes in the middle east, they are changing their strategy and reshaping themselves. one can esily feel that.
Remember that we as Kurds, welcome any change in the political structure of middle east, be through military liberation (as in Iraq) or reforms, as in Neo-Mongolic turkey.

Guess what - I disliked your comment even more... ":oops:" ( )

Are you gonna teach me that NOW? Gudea - look at my actions and then come and tell me that we don't dislike Iranians who oppose "that chauvunistic policy"... For God's sake I am even friends (my best friend) with a Persian who says Kurds are PERSIANS!!! I think I know very well who I am and what others are and also how to act...

But thank you for your "humble" advice... [Refering to your "sorry" and that cute smiley going all red in blushing... ]

Just look at my actions (what I write) and why exactly I invited both Arashi and Parsi to Roj Bash Kurdistan... Which says a lot about me...

Will you be more specific - what exactly is that you don't like, Gudea?

The fact that Ariobarzan is Iranian...?

I'm not going to decide whether he cant be considered a Kurd or not. I'm even not talking about this. This is not important whether X or Y is ethnically Z or W. The important fact is that he speaks from a Persian/Iranian nationalistic point of view. A Persian/Iranian standpoint.
(again, it is not important whether he is a Kurd or not, although i never seen a kurd supporting Iranian/Persian nationalism). You try to regard to the discussion as a discussion between some Kurds and some (non-Kurds or Persians/Iranians). while I see it as a discussion between Kurdish activists and/or Kurdish nationalists with Iranian/Persian nationalists.
And i'm not very novice as u may think.

Yes - so we agree... With most of it...

But I think you've misunderstood my point of view... I don't "try to regard to the discussion as a discussion between some Kurds and some (non-Kurds or Persians/Iranians)". I, like you "see it as a discussion between Kurdish activists and/or Kurdish nationalists with Iranian/Persian nationalists."

To be precise; I see it as discussion between persons with a Kurdish identity and persons with an Iranian identity. Being Iranian doesn't mean he can't be a Persian or that he can't be a Kurd too - it simply means that Iran comes before his Kurdishness and Persianness ----> Which would mean, his Kurdish and Persianness would merely be ethnic and cultural identities... Not National identity...

Because THAT is what's at hand here; we are talking about National identities... He thinks he can be an Iranian national and at the same time a Kurdish national...

No sir, that is impossible - those are at times opposite, but not 100% compatible... Whereas a Kurdish national can separate from Iran, an Iranian national cannot...

That is why I am discussing with him wether or not he can call himself a worthy Kurd... In my oppinion, in according with the proof presented in my logical step by step explenation; He cannot be both a Kurdish national AND an Iranian national at the same time...

If i'm not mistaken as his solution suggested he can be both national Kurd and national Iranian.

[Diri]

I thought we agreed;

He is a national Iranian... End of story...

At TIMES being a National Iranian and National Kurd will be two conflicting identities! So he can therefore not be considered a national Kurd because he would choose his Iranian (which also includes/accepts an ethnic Kurdish identity, however which does not include/accept a political-national Kurdish identity) national over his Kurdish national...

[Gudea]

:( I thought we agreed;

He is a national Iranian... End of story...

At TIMES being a National Iranian and National Kurd will be two conflicting identities! So he can therefore not be considered a national Kurd because he would choose his Iranian (which also includes/accepts an ethnic Kurdish identity, however which does not include/accept a political-national Kurdish identity) national over his Kurdish national...

Did not you read his ideas about a federal Iranic entity?
He talks about future. He knows that the region wont remain as today is. just compare Middle east 2001 with middle east 2006. Many changes. What he is talking about is not what Reza Shah believed, nor is what Khumaini did, nor Ahmadinejad.
BTW this is not only Iranians who talk about an Iranic union, but also I have seen Indians who talk about alliance with an independent ''Aryan Kurdistan'' with a few years!
These are not against Kurdish interests, IF we consider them as alternatives.

USA, has a Kurdish policy.
Iranian Shia extremists have a Kurdish policy.
Iranian nationalists have a Kurdish policy.
Turks have one.
Arabs have one.
EU has one.
Israel has one.

Some are good some are bad, some are better some are worse. Some say an Autonomous Kurdish region, Some say a full independent Kurdish state. some say X some say Z...

[Diri]

Sure - but this idea of his popped up right now...

I wanna see some more of that before I make up my mind about it... Some people will tell you anything...

[Ariobarzan]

Sure - but this idea of his popped up right now...

man you are a piece of work, this is in my second post (EVER) in the very first page of this thread:
"...If we as Kurds have the same history, language, kinship, and forefathers / founders as persians then lets just ignore all that and label whoever mentions it as a possible means of creating a powerful FEDERAL entity..."


almost in every post I have Federalism of all Iranic people, all equal, all independent, and together all Powerful as the main plot of my discussion, and you declare with EASE that this idea of mine just popped out right now, and people say anything... I don't need to say anything to impress anyone if I don't believe in it, infact I have been working for this idea for more time than your age probobly. Read first . Read.

[Diri]

Oh please... Spare me the rhetoric...

Let's just get over you and you should try to get over you too...

Anywho...

[BlueEyedCat]

Imagine how boring Aryans would be if everyone was 100% Persian, Azari, Baloch or Kurd.

Azeris are not Persian,Arian or whatever your claim is. Stop repeating this.

[Parsi]

Imagine how boring Aryans would be if everyone was 100% Persian, Azari, Baloch or Kurd.

Azeris are not Persian,Arian or whatever your claim is. Stop repeating this.

You're right they are Mongols and belong in "Turan"

Inspite the fact that they spoke an IRANIAN language before Turk/Mongol invasion. This is a fact. You can't argue with that statement.

Azeris consider themselves as Iranian Turks - which I don't agree with but it's how they feel. But they still feel Iranian and don't group themselves with the Turks of Turkey or the Mongols of Central asia. They are very Iranian in culture, music, and history.