Turkey Turning Islamist??? Have your say...

[Diri]

No no...

You didn't get my point... Turks refuse that any Ottoman was anything BUT Turkish... In their eyes - every Ottoman was a Turk...

They don't accept that their music, dances, food and culture is from Kurdish, Armenian, Greek and Arab - it's not their own...

That is what I meant...

[Piling]

It is absurd to look past with the your nationalist eyes. I am sure last thing he tought was his kurdishness.

LOL ! He was the author of the Sherefname, which is the first History of Kurdish sovereigns and princes, and explained clearly at the beginning of his work that he wants to make that historical work about Kurds because he is one of them.

In fact he was not still a nationalist, but a proto-nationalist, as he did not claim independance as Xanî did later. But he was absolutely aware of his kurdishness and claimed it.

They were loyal to ottomans, so they were ottomans.Neither kurds nor turks.

So Turks who were loyal to Saladin were not Turks ?

[zurderer]

That is illness of every nation you named.

You can discuss with a armenian If lahmacun is kurdish or armenians.


Also turks accept, much dance are greeks(like horon, or eagean dances.), food are arabic or kurdish(Lahmacun, çiğ köfte)We have a music named arabesk, or like this.

Turk generally accept discussed thing as their own(like baklava.)

[Parsi]

That is illness of every nation you named.

You can discuss with a armenian If lahmacun is kurdish or armenians.


Also turks accept, much dance are greeks(like horon, or eagean dances.), food are arabic or kurdish(Lahmacun, çiğ köfte)We have a music named arabesk, or like this.

Turk generally accept discussed thing as their own(like baklava.)

I thought Baklava was Assyrian??

[zurderer]

LOL ! He was the author of the Sherefname, which is the first History of Kurdish sovereigns and princes, and explained clearly at the beginning of his work that he wants to make that historical work about Kurds because he is one of them.

In fact he was not still a nationalist, but a proto-nationalist, as he did not claim independance as Xanî did later. But he was absolutely aware of his kurdishness and claimed it.

I have not much knowledge about him, If he was a kurdish nationalist so he is a kurd.

So Turks who were loyal to Saladin were not Turks ?

They were selcuks and eyyubids(Like saladin.), and both empire has turkish rulers.

It is absurd to go past with nationalist eyes

So what? do you want to tell me, mimar sinan was armenian? sokullu was serb? You are giving too much importance to blood.

[zurderer]

I thought Baklava was Assyrian??

add this too, everyone who eat baklava say that baklava is our food.

Turks, armenians, kurds, cypriots, armenians, arabs ext ext.. So now we have assyrians too.

[Vladimir]

You see Osmans as Turks. Who is viewing the past with nationalist eyes here? Excuse me..

[Diri]

You see Osmans as Turks. Who is viewing the past with nationalist eyes here? Excuse me..

Dest Xosh...

[zurderer]

You see Osmans as Turks. Who is viewing the past with nationalist eyes here? Excuse me..

I see turks as osmans. We are their sons.

I dont see osmans as kazak or kırgız, but Turks.

[Vladimir]

Ok, but Osmans didn't see themselves as proud Turks, but as Osman citizens, loyal to the Sultan.

[zurderer]

Of course, people began to call themself as turk only after young turks and Atatürk.

do you realy think turks could resist nationalist ideas at that times?

None of older ottoman people resisted this ideas, turks, armenians, greeks, arabs, kurds, bulgars, everyone of them effected from nationalist ideas.

So turks too.

[Vladimir]

I acknowledge that;). I am starting to think we are discussing Osman history classes here now. Because I also get this on university. "Ottoman" is a wrong name, btw. It's the house of OSMAN, not Ottoman.

[tomjez]

It's the house of OSMAN, not Ottoman

It just depends of the people who name them. In France they say "Ottoman", in english sometimes "Othman", and of course in Turkey "Osmanli"

French will say "Merovingien" english "Merovingian"... It's like "Charlemagne" = Carolus Magnus = Karl der Grosse" [/quote]

[Vladimir]

Ottoman is German lol. If I use the word Ottoman, I will have problem on the uni.