a very controversial question

[thesunchild]

Kurmanji is very mixed with turkish, while sorani is aswell pretty much mixed with sassani.

Are you serious and what are you smoking? Kurmanji is NOT mixed with Turkic!

Kurmanji is spoken in the most parts of Kurdistan even in the places where the Turks never saw the light.

[Kurdistano]

hewraman, i think the hewramnis are the purest by genetic, culture, language, religion etc. They are the ones who have preserved the kurdish culture. Kurmanji is very mixed with turkish, while sorani is aswell pretty much mixed with sassani. Anyway if you compare kurds to persian, the persian became much more mixed with arabs. During the mongols invasion, the mongols got very mixed with persian but when it came to the kurds we lived all in tribes. So we didn't become mixed that much. During the mongols invasion there were kurdish tribes that went so far to algeria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJhNLEYCmLU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfLk9RIQneU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj55okMPuuc&feature=relmfu&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

Hewramis are "purer" as some others but not the purest. All Kurdish areas are somehow mixed but The purest might be living somewhere in Central Kurdistan and Yezidis. However we are more homogeneous as Turks, Armenians, Persians and Arabs. Soran Speakers are not "mixed" with Sassanians cause Sassanians were a dynasty not a people.

Yes, Sorani is mixed with sassani, i didn't say sassanian dynasty. How can sassanians be an dynasty and not a people even in an grammatical way? You missunderstood me. I mean the language, not the people.

A Sassanian people did not exist. It was a dynasty based on a family which was dominated by (Middle) Persian speakers, and Sorani is not much more influenced by middle Persian as Persian is by modern Kurdish or North Iranic in general. And about Kurmanji being mixed with Turkish, were do you got that? Are you simply talking out of feeling or do you have some reasonable and scientific sources for that, cause from my knowledge real Kurmanji (without those Kurds who mix it with Turkish cause they dont know Kurmanji very well) is very pure has some small amount of arabic loanwords as general languages in the Near East ( like Saat , which means clock). Turkish is by far more mixed with Arab loanwords, just that Atatürk "turkified" most words in changing some louds like extiyar (old) to ihtiyar or asq (for love) which became ask in Turkish.

[unitedkurdistan]

Kurmanji is very mixed with turkish, while sorani is aswell pretty much mixed with sassani.

Are you serious and what are you smoking? Kurmanji is NOT mixed with Turkic!

Kurmanji is spoken in the most parts of Kurdistan even in the places where the Turks never saw the light.

But, from what i hear from a sorani teacher, he showed me a kurmanji book. Why are so many words different from sorani? Very typical words, like one that i can remember a hin. Maybe kak talsor knows. A mean compare sorani and kurmanji. It's two different dialects not languages. That's why i thought Kurmanji aswell was INFLUENCED as sorani is in S.K. And he is very good and pointing out which words are turkish and which ones are arabic, persian. We teach our children wrong words. If you compare the kurdish in E.K to S.K, many words in S.K are actully arabic.

[Kurdistano]

Kurmanji is very mixed with turkish, while sorani is aswell pretty much mixed with sassani.

Are you serious and what are you smoking? Kurmanji is NOT mixed with Turkic!

Kurmanji is spoken in the most parts of Kurdistan even in the places where the Turks never saw the light.

But, from what i hear from a sorani teacher, he showed me a kurmanji book. Why are so many words different from sorani? Very typical words, like one that i can remember a hin. Maybe kak talsor knows. A mean compare sorani and kurmanji. It's two different dialects not languages. That's why i thought Kurmanji aswell was INFLUENCED as sorani is in S.K. And he is very good and pointing out which words are turkish and which ones are arabic, persian. We teach our children wrong words. If you compare the kurdish in E.K to S.K, many words in S.K are actully arabic.

The differences between Sorani and Kurmanji are not because of influences of non Kurdish languages but very likely influence of other Kurdish dialects and evolved into their own way. If you actually read some new books based on linguistic and as well history you will learn and see, that Sorani has not the same root as Kurmanji but is more like a daughter language of Hewrami which was strongly influenced by Kurmanji. The grammatical system and many other characteristic things of Sorani are typical for Hewrami and different from Kurmanji.

[kurd-sthanam]

But why when i look at kurmanji education book, i see so big differences since it's 2 different dialetcs. It's not 2 different languages. I mean very typical words, like hin and so on. Otherwise i agree.

what do you mean by "hin"? is it "some"? its normal with big differences when we have 3000 years history, but kurdish were spread in early times of kurdish history and than kurdistan was under other states, and used other primary languages wich led to kurdish were diveded to many languages and stayed not united. in only 600 years it is possible for a language to evolve in more languages.

The differences between Sorani and Kurmanji are not because of influences of non Kurdish languages but very likely influence of other Kurdish dialects and evolved into their own way. If you actually read some new books based on linguistic and as well history you will learn and see, that Sorani has not the same root as Kurmanji but is more like a daughter language of Hewrami which was strongly influenced by Kurmanji. The grammatical system and many other characteristic things of Sorani are typical for Hewrami and different from Kurmanji.

I agree, I think it is also possible that it is evolved from proto kurmanji with heavy influence of hewrami, because when you look the phonology and words are very similar to kurmanci but it differs in gramatic. if you look to kurdish dialects/languages there are many dialects, but 3 gramatic systems. 1:Kurmanci & zazakî (ergative), 2:sorani, hewrami(split-ergative), 3: south kurdish(non ergative). maybe kurdish was evolved to 3 dialects in first stage and not 2 as mostly accepted: proto-kurmanji, proto-zazaki and proto-hewrami.

[Kurdistano]

But why when i look at kurmanji education book, i see so big differences since it's 2 different dialetcs. It's not 2 different languages. I mean very typical words, like hin and so on. Otherwise i agree.

what do you mean by "hin"? is it "some"? its normal with big differences when we have 3000 years history, but kurdish were spread in early times of kurdish history and than kurdistan was under other states, and used other primary languages wich led to kurdish were diveded to many languages and stayed not united. in only 600 years it is possible for a language to evolve in more languages.

The differences between Sorani and Kurmanji are not because of influences of non Kurdish languages but very likely influence of other Kurdish dialects and evolved into their own way. If you actually read some new books based on linguistic and as well history you will learn and see, that Sorani has not the same root as Kurmanji but is more like a daughter language of Hewrami which was strongly influenced by Kurmanji. The grammatical system and many other characteristic things of Sorani are typical for Hewrami and different from Kurmanji.

I agree, I think it is also possible that it is evolved from proto kurmanji with heavy influence of hewrami, because when you look the phonology and words are very similar to kurmanci but it differs in gramatic. if you look to kurdish dialects/languages there are many dialects, but 3 gramatic systems. 1:Kurmanci & zazakî (ergative), 2:sorani, hewrami(split-ergative), 3: south kurdish(non ergative). maybe kurdish was evolved to 3 dialects in first stage and not 2 as mostly accepted: proto-kurmanji, proto-zazaki and proto-hewrami.

Your right but you always have to take in account the historic events and if we look at the distribution area of Sorani and than follow the history , we see how Sorani replaced Hewrami step by step. All Regions were today Sorani is spoken were once Hewrami dominated. And also history tells us that Kurmanji speakers moved into Goran areas and influenced the people there, and just after that, slowly the Soranis appeared.

2. hypothesis are possible imo.

1. The Sorani speakers are ethnic Hewramis and the Sorani language is the daughter of Hewrami just strongly influenced by Kurmanji

or

2. The Sorani speakers are ethnic Hewramis which have gone through linguistic shift towards Kurmanji but still kept some Hewrami specific characteristics what created the new language of Sorani.

[unitedkurdistan]

But why when i look at kurmanji education book, i see so big differences since it's 2 different dialetcs. It's not 2 different languages. I mean very typical words, like hin and so on. Otherwise i agree.

what do you mean by "hin"? is it "some"? its normal with big differences when we have 3000 years history, but kurdish were spread in early times of kurdish history and than kurdistan was under other states, and used other primary languages wich led to kurdish were diveded to many languages and stayed not united. in only 600 years it is possible for a language to evolve in more languages.

The differences between Sorani and Kurmanji are not because of influences of non Kurdish languages but very likely influence of other Kurdish dialects and evolved into their own way. If you actually read some new books based on linguistic and as well history you will learn and see, that Sorani has not the same root as Kurmanji but is more like a daughter language of Hewrami which was strongly influenced by Kurmanji. The grammatical system and many other characteristic things of Sorani are typical for Hewrami and different from Kurmanji.

I agree, I think it is also possible that it is evolved from proto kurmanji with heavy influence of hewrami, because when you look the phonology and words are very similar to kurmanci but it differs in gramatic. if you look to kurdish dialects/languages there are many dialects, but 3 gramatic systems. 1:Kurmanci & zazakî (ergative), 2:sorani, hewrami(split-ergative), 3: south kurdish(non ergative). maybe kurdish was evolved to 3 dialects in first stage and not 2 as mostly accepted: proto-kurmanji, proto-zazaki and proto-hewrami.

i mean hen, but there are many other words aswell.

[kurd-sthanam]

i mean hen, but there are many other words aswell.

i believed not sorani use "hen" i thought you use "chend". we use also "hena" or "kesni/kesna" for some people.

[kurd-sthanam]

But why when i look at kurmanji education book, i see so big differences since it's 2 different dialetcs. It's not 2 different languages. I mean very typical words, like hin and so on. Otherwise i agree.

what do you mean by "hin"? is it "some"? its normal with big differences when we have 3000 years history, but kurdish were spread in early times of kurdish history and than kurdistan was under other states, and used other primary languages wich led to kurdish were diveded to many languages and stayed not united. in only 600 years it is possible for a language to evolve in more languages.

The differences between Sorani and Kurmanji are not because of influences of non Kurdish languages but very likely influence of other Kurdish dialects and evolved into their own way. If you actually read some new books based on linguistic and as well history you will learn and see, that Sorani has not the same root as Kurmanji but is more like a daughter language of Hewrami which was strongly influenced by Kurmanji. The grammatical system and many other characteristic things of Sorani are typical for Hewrami and different from Kurmanji.

I agree, I think it is also possible that it is evolved from proto kurmanji with heavy influence of hewrami, because when you look the phonology and words are very similar to kurmanci but it differs in gramatic. if you look to kurdish dialects/languages there are many dialects, but 3 gramatic systems. 1:Kurmanci & zazakî (ergative), 2:sorani, hewrami(split-ergative), 3: south kurdish(non ergative). maybe kurdish was evolved to 3 dialects in first stage and not 2 as mostly accepted: proto-kurmanji, proto-zazaki and proto-hewrami.

Your right but you always have to take in account the historic events and if we look at the distribution area of Sorani and than follow the history , we see how Sorani replaced Hewrami step by step. All Regions were today Sorani is spoken were once Hewrami dominated. And also history tells us that Kurmanji speakers moved into Goran areas and influenced the people there, and just after that, slowly the Soranis appeared.

2. hypothesis are possible imo.

1. The Sorani speakers are ethnic Hewramis and the Sorani language is the daughter of Hewrami just strongly influenced by Kurmanji

or

2. The Sorani speakers are ethnic Hewramis which have gone through linguistic shift towards Kurmanji but still kept some Hewrami specific characteristics what created the new language of Sorani.

can you send me a source for the kurmanji speakers moving south? yes once hewrami was dominating. maybe other dialects are also dissapeared, maybe some we have never heard today, example in central anatolia, there are shêxbizinî tribe who speak their own dialect/language close to south kurdish, they dont use ergativity just like south kurdish and persian and their language have also very much common with zazaki and kurmanci and distunguishes between V and W sound what the southern dialects dont do. they came from kerkuk or sulemani 300 years ago, today the shêxbizin tribe in south speak sorani.

[Kurdistano]

can you send me a source for the kurmanji speakers moving south? yes once hewrami was dominating. maybe other dialects are also dissapeared, maybe some we have never heard today, example in central anatolia, there are shêxbizinî tribe who speak their own dialect/language close to south kurdish, they dont use ergativity just like south kurdish and persian and their language have also very much common with zazaki and kurmanci and distunguishes between V and W sound what the southern dialects dont do. they came from kerkuk or sulemani 300 years ago, today the shêxbizin tribe in south speak sorani.

I know about the shexbizini from central Anatolia. Well I had the link but unfortunately lost it. Its from an historian in this link he wrote about two main Groups of Kurdish origin. The Goran, which are more the native people and have the "Greek features" and another the Kurmanj/Kirmancis who are the "Aryans who Aryanified the Gorans by mixing with them(note Kirmanc is also the original name of Zaza).

[kurd-sthanam]

can you send me a source for the kurmanji speakers moving south? yes once hewrami was dominating. maybe other dialects are also dissapeared, maybe some we have never heard today, example in central anatolia, there are shêxbizinî tribe who speak their own dialect/language close to south kurdish, they dont use ergativity just like south kurdish and persian and their language have also very much common with zazaki and kurmanci and distunguishes between V and W sound what the southern dialects dont do. they came from kerkuk or sulemani 300 years ago, today the shêxbizin tribe in south speak sorani.

I know about the shexbizini from central Anatolia. Well I had the link but unfortunately lost it. Its from an historian in this link he wrote about two main Groups of Kurdish origin. The Goran, which are more the native people and have the "Greek features" and another the Kurmanj/Kirmancis who are the "Aryans who Aryanified the Gorans by mixing with them(note Kirmanc is also the original name of Zaza).

yes shexbizini people say also kirmanc/kirmancekî to them self and a part of sunni zaza population call their language "kirdkî (kurdish)". in central anatolia we never use the word "kurd" but kurmanc, and call all kurds kurmanc, only foreigners and kurds from kurdistan i meet say kurd

[unitedkurdistan]

i mean hen, but there are many other words aswell.

i believed not sorani use "hen" i thought you use "chend". we use also "hena" or "kesni/kesna" for some people.

Hehe, no i mean hen, chicken. Kalakasher = hen. Atleast what i say. Chicken= mirishk.

[kurd-sthanam]

i mean hen, but there are many other words aswell.

i believed not sorani use "hen" i thought you use "chend". we use also "hena" or "kesni/kesna" for some people.

Hehe, no i mean hen, chicken. Kalakasher = hen. Atleast what i say. Chicken= mirishk.

haha . we say chüchik